Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Warden L6 Utility "Bears Endurance"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5725758" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>And I can say the exact same thing practically word for word for Shield.</p><p></p><p>"Therefore it has to happen at the point where the PC has been hit but the final resolution of the "you are hit state", i.e. the damage and other conditions being applied to the character have not."</p><p></p><p>Practically word for word.</p><p></p><p>I add the +4 to AC and Reflex of Shield before damage and conditions are applied. But, the PC is still hit. The PC still has that +4 to AC and Reflex until the end of his next turn, but it does nothing for this attack action because "you are hit" has already been resolved. That's what happens when you treat an immediate interrupt as an immediate reaction (like you are for Bear's Endurance).</p><p></p><p>I'll use your own words "It is important to note that nowhere in the rules section on Interrupt does it say that the Immediate invalidates the action by going back in time to a point before the triggering condition arose."</p><p></p><p>Hence, one cannot go back in time and re-calculate a PC being hit when that PC uses Shield. The hit has already occurred. One cannot go back in time.</p><p></p><p>Your own words dude, but just applied to Shield instead of Bear's Endurance. Let me repeat that. Your own words dude.</p><p></p><p>You cannot have it both ways. It cannot be "not going back in time" for the Shield case and "going back in time" for the Bear's Endurance case. There are no explicit rules for handling the cases differently. None of your rules quotes have done this.</p><p></p><p>It cannot be "you are hit" is a step and is not set in stone for resolving the entire action, and "you go to zero hit points" is not a step and is set in stone for resolving the entire action.</p><p></p><p>I cannot comprehend that you do not comprehend that you are treating the two cases differently.</p><p></p><p>Every single little step in the entire process of adjudicating an attack action is a step that can be interrupted. Otherwise, the interrupt rules are inconsistent. One cannot pick and choose which steps can be interrupted and which ones cannot. Calculating damage is part of the resolution of an action. Sliding the target is part of the resolution of an action. Bloodying a target is part of the resolution of an action. You cannot resolve an action merely up to the point in time that a PC is declared HIT. The rest of the steps are part of the resolution of the entire action and an immediate interrupt can invalidate those points in time (i.e. triggers) just like it can invalidate earlier points in time for the resolution of the entire action.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't have to quote rules quotes. I just have to show where you are being inconsistent by treating the two cases differently (like I just did by using your own words, not once, but twice).</p><p></p><p>The bottom line is that you treat "action resolution" as a point in time part way before the entire action is resolved where an action can be interrupted, but beyond that part way point in time, you treat immediate interrupts as immediate reactions (not completely, it's actually a third type of interrupt that you've created where the trigger cannot be changed, but not quite an immediate reaction).</p><p></p><p>Your "where in the PHB certain rules are located" justifications not withstanding, your logic is flawed.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The flaw in your logic is that you are treating the trigger "you are hit" as something not set in stone and reversible while you are treating the trigger "you go below 0 hit points" as something set in stone and non-reversible.</p><p></p><p>You have not actually quoted a rule that allows for that. You just explain where part way in the process of adjudicating the entire action you draw your line and no longer allow the interrupt to be immediate.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5725758, member: 2011"] And I can say the exact same thing practically word for word for Shield. "Therefore it has to happen at the point where the PC has been hit but the final resolution of the "you are hit state", i.e. the damage and other conditions being applied to the character have not." Practically word for word. I add the +4 to AC and Reflex of Shield before damage and conditions are applied. But, the PC is still hit. The PC still has that +4 to AC and Reflex until the end of his next turn, but it does nothing for this attack action because "you are hit" has already been resolved. That's what happens when you treat an immediate interrupt as an immediate reaction (like you are for Bear's Endurance). I'll use your own words "It is important to note that nowhere in the rules section on Interrupt does it say that the Immediate invalidates the action by going back in time to a point before the triggering condition arose." Hence, one cannot go back in time and re-calculate a PC being hit when that PC uses Shield. The hit has already occurred. One cannot go back in time. Your own words dude, but just applied to Shield instead of Bear's Endurance. Let me repeat that. Your own words dude. You cannot have it both ways. It cannot be "not going back in time" for the Shield case and "going back in time" for the Bear's Endurance case. There are no explicit rules for handling the cases differently. None of your rules quotes have done this. It cannot be "you are hit" is a step and is not set in stone for resolving the entire action, and "you go to zero hit points" is not a step and is set in stone for resolving the entire action. I cannot comprehend that you do not comprehend that you are treating the two cases differently. Every single little step in the entire process of adjudicating an attack action is a step that can be interrupted. Otherwise, the interrupt rules are inconsistent. One cannot pick and choose which steps can be interrupted and which ones cannot. Calculating damage is part of the resolution of an action. Sliding the target is part of the resolution of an action. Bloodying a target is part of the resolution of an action. You cannot resolve an action merely up to the point in time that a PC is declared HIT. The rest of the steps are part of the resolution of the entire action and an immediate interrupt can invalidate those points in time (i.e. triggers) just like it can invalidate earlier points in time for the resolution of the entire action. I don't have to quote rules quotes. I just have to show where you are being inconsistent by treating the two cases differently (like I just did by using your own words, not once, but twice). The bottom line is that you treat "action resolution" as a point in time part way before the entire action is resolved where an action can be interrupted, but beyond that part way point in time, you treat immediate interrupts as immediate reactions (not completely, it's actually a third type of interrupt that you've created where the trigger cannot be changed, but not quite an immediate reaction). Your "where in the PHB certain rules are located" justifications not withstanding, your logic is flawed. The flaw in your logic is that you are treating the trigger "you are hit" as something not set in stone and reversible while you are treating the trigger "you go below 0 hit points" as something set in stone and non-reversible. You have not actually quoted a rule that allows for that. You just explain where part way in the process of adjudicating the entire action you draw your line and no longer allow the interrupt to be immediate. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Warden L6 Utility "Bears Endurance"
Top