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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7291178" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>Reading through, getting a feel for how it fits together. Some first pass thoughts:</p><p></p><p>Because of the oddness in how the 5e rules on components are written, you can do somatic components with a hand holding an arcane focus ONLY if it also has material components. I would suggest increasing the power of <strong>Spellcasting Focus</strong> to allow the hand holding the one-handed weapon to also do somatic components.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, you've got a definite one-handed/no shield vibe going so that maybe moot.</p><p></p><p>I notice that <strong>Shield Ward</strong> will end up giving a higher AC (since it works with heavy armor) than Bladesinging, which many people already complain about. And it works when surprised and against attack before a bladesinger could start singing. Plus it's on a d10 HD chassis instead of a d6 HD chassis. And it will advance with proficiency without needing additional investment into INT like the bladesinger. That ends up being too good.</p><p></p><p>(Oh, and while your meaning is clear, someone could argue that they equip a shield, and then the next round this comes back on so it will stack. May want to check the wording.)</p><p></p><p><strong>Distant Step</strong> - x2 move bonus action teleport <em>every round</em> without limit (in addition to your move) is a <em>very significant</em> amount of mobility for a non-skirmisher. (And your AC & HPs are not in line with the class being a skirmisher.) I'd suggest maybe INT mod (min 1) times per long rest.</p><p></p><p><strong>Spell Shatter</strong> - I like this as is. But I'd like to suggest an alternative: </p><p></p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">When targetted with a spell that requires an attack roll, as a reaction you can counterspell it as long as you are wielding your Spellcasting Focus.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Whenever you cast counterspell or dispel magic, includign when using this ability, you add any magical weapon bonus from your Spellcasting Focus.</li> </ul><p></p><p>This gives the whole striking the spell with your sword and destroying it. It's more powerful with counterspelling (so avoiding instantaneous effects and protecting others) but is weaker in that it only works for spells with attack rolls, not ones with saves. </p><p></p><p><strong>Expediency</strong> doesn't mention anything about breaking the normal rules that if you cast a spell with a bonus action that the only other spells you can cast that round are cantrips. Did you intent it to avoid this and allow two spells in a round once per short rest, or is this just a "full non-casting action plus a spell"?</p><p></p><p><strong>Elemental Dicipline</strong> - I like this <em>the whole way though</em>, including the capstone.</p><p></p><p><strong>Arcane Discipline</strong> - The AC gets too high when you combine it with shield ward. You can easily have a naked AC of 26 at higher levels. That's way outside bounded accuracy even before you consider Shield is not only on the spell list but auto-granted as a Disciplie Spell.</p><p></p><p>I know other classes have 10 + 2 ability scores, but Shield Ward pushes it way over the edge even before considering Shield.</p><p></p><p>And if you allow multiclassing that only takes 3 levels of Warden (and the 20 INT & DEX), so you can go for anything else. Warden 3 / Bladesinger X with Bladesong and using Shield would reach a naked AC of 36 before any magic items or spells. Haste would be +2, Greater Invisibility would grant disadvantage, etc. That's not precisely a problem with the Warden class, but every new expansion needs to consider the previous expansions and it was here first.</p><p></p><p>I'm good with the rest of the Arcane Discipline. The capstone is powerful but limited in usage.</p><p></p><p><strong>Blood Discipline</strong> - this is going <em>creepy and it works. Love the feel.</em></p><p></p><p><strong>Blood Feast</strong> is pretty nice, especially since you're doing bonus damage with Empower Weapon. Not overpowered-nice, more like "this is a very valid move, let me use it" nice. And it works well with <strong>Touch of Atrophy</strong> at 16th. I can see a Blood Discipline wanting Haste up ASAP for additional attacks - which is right in the groove for a gish.</p><p></p><p>Blood Discipline is the one that most directly feeds physical attacking and spells for defense, including the discipline list.</p><p></p><p>I haven't gone through the spells in detail, but I do see that most of the "I want that to gish" spells are on it. So it's a solid, powerful spell list.</p><p></p><p><u>Summary:</u></p><p>All in all, on first pass I like it. The Disciplines have good feel and mechancially support that feel.</p><p></p><p>Shield Ward is flat out too powerful. It breaks bounded accuracy, on a d10 HD class, with medium armor proficiency so you don''t need to sink a lot into DEX, and that has Shield on it's list. I'd suggest nixing it completely. Due to the bonus damage on attacks the class does two-handed weapon damage on attacks already, giving in a shield that grows up to x3 shield is too much. From a balance perspective I'd completely drop it. The only way I'd say to keep it is to limit to to only vs. Spell attacks.</p><p></p><p>I know you've defended it in other posts. The reason it keeps getting pointed out is that it's really that strong. REALLY.</p><p></p><p>If it's gone, I'm okay with Arcane Discipline's version of unarmored defense, even with Shield and d10 HPs. (Though not how it stacks with Bladesinger, but that's not really the fault of the Warden.)</p><p></p><p>I don't like unlimited teleport on a non-skirmisher class. Reduce HD and AC and it's in line with the other classes that get it, but on this chassis it's too much. I'd put in a limit like INT times per long rest.</p><p></p><p>I would suggest noting that when you talk about level, you mean class level, not character level. Otherwise there's a lot to cherry-pick when it comes to multiclassing.</p><p></p><p>All in all I think there's a really nice feel, but there are a few point that I think need some polish for balance. Definitely worthy.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 7291178, member: 20564"] Reading through, getting a feel for how it fits together. Some first pass thoughts: Because of the oddness in how the 5e rules on components are written, you can do somatic components with a hand holding an arcane focus ONLY if it also has material components. I would suggest increasing the power of [B]Spellcasting Focus[/B] to allow the hand holding the one-handed weapon to also do somatic components. On the other hand, you've got a definite one-handed/no shield vibe going so that maybe moot. I notice that [B]Shield Ward[/B] will end up giving a higher AC (since it works with heavy armor) than Bladesinging, which many people already complain about. And it works when surprised and against attack before a bladesinger could start singing. Plus it's on a d10 HD chassis instead of a d6 HD chassis. And it will advance with proficiency without needing additional investment into INT like the bladesinger. That ends up being too good. (Oh, and while your meaning is clear, someone could argue that they equip a shield, and then the next round this comes back on so it will stack. May want to check the wording.) [B]Distant Step[/B] - x2 move bonus action teleport [I]every round[/I] without limit (in addition to your move) is a [I]very significant[/I] amount of mobility for a non-skirmisher. (And your AC & HPs are not in line with the class being a skirmisher.) I'd suggest maybe INT mod (min 1) times per long rest. [B]Spell Shatter[/B] - I like this as is. But I'd like to suggest an alternative: [LIST] [*]When targetted with a spell that requires an attack roll, as a reaction you can counterspell it as long as you are wielding your Spellcasting Focus. [*]Whenever you cast counterspell or dispel magic, includign when using this ability, you add any magical weapon bonus from your Spellcasting Focus. [/LIST] This gives the whole striking the spell with your sword and destroying it. It's more powerful with counterspelling (so avoiding instantaneous effects and protecting others) but is weaker in that it only works for spells with attack rolls, not ones with saves. [B]Expediency[/B] doesn't mention anything about breaking the normal rules that if you cast a spell with a bonus action that the only other spells you can cast that round are cantrips. Did you intent it to avoid this and allow two spells in a round once per short rest, or is this just a "full non-casting action plus a spell"? [B]Elemental Dicipline[/B] - I like this [I]the whole way though[/I], including the capstone. [B]Arcane Discipline[/B] - The AC gets too high when you combine it with shield ward. You can easily have a naked AC of 26 at higher levels. That's way outside bounded accuracy even before you consider Shield is not only on the spell list but auto-granted as a Disciplie Spell. I know other classes have 10 + 2 ability scores, but Shield Ward pushes it way over the edge even before considering Shield. And if you allow multiclassing that only takes 3 levels of Warden (and the 20 INT & DEX), so you can go for anything else. Warden 3 / Bladesinger X with Bladesong and using Shield would reach a naked AC of 36 before any magic items or spells. Haste would be +2, Greater Invisibility would grant disadvantage, etc. That's not precisely a problem with the Warden class, but every new expansion needs to consider the previous expansions and it was here first. I'm good with the rest of the Arcane Discipline. The capstone is powerful but limited in usage. [B]Blood Discipline[/B] - this is going [I]creepy and it works. Love the feel.[/I] [B]Blood Feast[/B] is pretty nice, especially since you're doing bonus damage with Empower Weapon. Not overpowered-nice, more like "this is a very valid move, let me use it" nice. And it works well with [B]Touch of Atrophy[/B] at 16th. I can see a Blood Discipline wanting Haste up ASAP for additional attacks - which is right in the groove for a gish. Blood Discipline is the one that most directly feeds physical attacking and spells for defense, including the discipline list. I haven't gone through the spells in detail, but I do see that most of the "I want that to gish" spells are on it. So it's a solid, powerful spell list. [U]Summary:[/U] All in all, on first pass I like it. The Disciplines have good feel and mechancially support that feel. Shield Ward is flat out too powerful. It breaks bounded accuracy, on a d10 HD class, with medium armor proficiency so you don''t need to sink a lot into DEX, and that has Shield on it's list. I'd suggest nixing it completely. Due to the bonus damage on attacks the class does two-handed weapon damage on attacks already, giving in a shield that grows up to x3 shield is too much. From a balance perspective I'd completely drop it. The only way I'd say to keep it is to limit to to only vs. Spell attacks. I know you've defended it in other posts. The reason it keeps getting pointed out is that it's really that strong. REALLY. If it's gone, I'm okay with Arcane Discipline's version of unarmored defense, even with Shield and d10 HPs. (Though not how it stacks with Bladesinger, but that's not really the fault of the Warden.) I don't like unlimited teleport on a non-skirmisher class. Reduce HD and AC and it's in line with the other classes that get it, but on this chassis it's too much. I'd put in a limit like INT times per long rest. I would suggest noting that when you talk about level, you mean class level, not character level. Otherwise there's a lot to cherry-pick when it comes to multiclassing. All in all I think there's a really nice feel, but there are a few point that I think need some polish for balance. Definitely worthy. [/QUOTE]
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