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Message: <blockquote data-quote="uzagi_akimbo" data-source="post: 1883720" data-attributes="member: 15945">Please name me 2 attack spells with a range better than 160' (medium range at 6th level  ) both available to a 6th level sorcecer, Magic Missile = Medium range, Scorching Ray = close, etc etc etc. Fireball is the main "long" range attack spell - and that has its own disadvantages due to its AE size. Not if they mean they will constantly be on - a constant "see invis" is certainly major power gain. Basically this means you are hard pressed to approach or trail this warlock's group invisible or ethereal. To my mind that is a major defensive advantage to him and his compatriots, eliminating a lot of surprise situations out of hand. Especially since the enemy has no real way to know that he does actually "see invis", at will, hence, will try to use that tactic with fullest confidence. Constant Blindvision ? The same bonus. etc etc etcWell the point is the Warlock has this power available at any time, while a sorcerer has to consider spending a spell slot to get the effect for a limited amount of time. The warlock gains perfect climbing skill and can basically walk/climb around any solid underground obstacle at will. Big chasm in floor too wide to jump ? Warlock waltzes over along the ceiling fastens rope, no problem. Bad guys chasing you into a cul de sac ? Turn invis and walk up the wall and grin while your pursuers stand around mystified how you escaped through the wall. Face a melee monster withourt ranged capability ? Run up the wall, nuke him from there safely out of his reach. the warlock - as the power lasts 24 hours does not even have to waste a standard action to initiate these tactics... I have absolutely no idea why you consider "spider climb" useless.Perhaps the other guys in the party realize that letting the warlock do many of the "chore" jobs sustains their own resources and hence endurance , too ? Because they don't have to waste their spells for mopping up hard to reach targets ? Because combat tends to last shorter with the opposition's buffs dispelled at leisure ?Both spells (as well as their many worthwhile brethren like Scintilliating Sphere, Acid Breath, Shatterfloor etc have the disadvantage of being rather hard to target, as you want to leave your comrades out of the AoE. Plus, all of these magics have a save for half damage. Besides being subject to elemental resistances for a further decrease in damage... Not to mention evasion and elemental immunity. Where these spell shine is in wiping out hordes of low-HD cannonfodder, and possibly hurting their bigger brethren. They look great on paper though, in calculations of possible maximum damage.And I have yet to see "Energy Substitution" saving the day vs. all strong saves opposition like outsiders etc.. Which sorcerer has more than one type, and since when is "sonic" - the only energy type to which hardly anyone is resistant or immune a viable choice for the v3.5 version of that feat again ?Plus, the sorcerer needs to spend 1 feat before even qualifying for that particular solution, and he needs it once for every alternate energy type he intends to use... Now, sorcerer's don't really have too many feats in the first place, at least to my experience.So the cleric in your games never goes down, is too busy or temporarily incapacipated because the smart opposition shoots for the healer ? And yes the warlock can simply buy himself a bunch of scrolls (or even funnier write them himself at level 12+ ), to have all those nifty "special situation" spells handy - clerical (harder to use, but it can be done ) or arcane ? As for "he has to roll for their use". Yes, he certainly does, but then again he can take "10" on that particular skill, which at level 6 should yield him totals of 19+CHA bonus without touching his dice... usually that is close enough to activate most items (considering that most Warlocks will have as high a CHA as they can, - for the save DC alone ). At 12th level we are of course talking 25 + CHA bonus (and he hasn't even considered taking a Feat boosting this skill yet). He can simply use bardic and druidic items, too, which many parties simply don't have a use for ( lacking both or one of the classes ) but might find useful. And trapped in a remote place, given the necessary materials and the feat, he can simply whip up a scroll of any particular magic one might need to go home - without even having access to the spell or a source for it . Another major boon, in my book at least.I guess in that case, I guess you simply miss a lot of the (abusable) possibilities of a cleverly played warlock. The sole thing I don't really see him doing is "shapechanging" and "polymorphing" over the place. And just for the record, which utility spells does a sorcerer, with his already limited spell load usually pack ?</blockquote>

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