Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lonely Tylenol" data-source="post: 1884501" data-attributes="member: 18549">Fireball and Melf's Acid Arrow.  Do note, as well, that for a 6th level sorc, fireball does 6d6 damage, save for 1/2, to all targets in the area of effect.  Half damage is 3d6, which is what a 6th level warlock does with his eldritch blast to a single target.  Since you emphasize the warlock's ability to strike from 250', let me point out that the sorcerer's party members aren't likely to be standing 250' away next to some enemies.  Not to mention that the sorcerer can throw fireballs 650' away, over twice the warlock's range...not that being able to shoot that far ever actually matters for either class, even outdoors.  When we close to more standard distances, at which point fireball stops being quite so useful (although a clever sorcerer will almost always be able to find a way to use it) the Eldritch Spear stops being useful.  Seeing as how it's one of only 4 invocations the warlock has at 6th level, this is a major loss of utility for the warlock.  Only one of those invocations is a lesser invocation anyway.Also keep in mind that as nice as some of these invocations are, they only work on the warlock.  Sure he can become invisible at will, but the rest of his party can't, and he can't make them invisible, although the sorcerer could.  He can spider climb forever, which means that he's up on the ceiling attracting missile and magic fire. Unless someone figures out he's a warlock and decides that since the See the Unseen power is so good every warlock must have it, he can probably see invisible people.  Test it with a low-level mook with a potion of invisibility, then if he's caught send things after him with ranks in hide instead of magic concealment.  I don't see Spot on the warlock class skill list.Yeah, cause we all know how troublesome those big chasms are on a daily basis.  Look, if you find yourself casting Spider Climb more than once a day maximum, invest in some Slippers.  Otherwise take note that the sorcerer could give Spider Climb to his entire party if he wanted to, or just to someone with more hit points and armour so when the hidden chokers catch him crawling over the ceiling it's not the sorcerer who gets attacked.Don't put words in my mouth.  Spider Climb is definitely useful.  I challenge the usefulness of having it 24 hours a day, considering the number of times it comes in handy.  Melee monster without ranged capability?  Run up the wall and watch as the melee monster walks around the corner waiting for you to come down so it can eat you rather than stand there and get blasted like an idiot.  There are reasons why a warlock would choose this invocation.  But it's not the overwhelming advantage you seem to think it is.  Especially because our theoretical warlock is always fighting outside to take advantage of Eldritch Spear, remember?  Of course if he does that, he's wasting another precious invocation on Spiderwalk.Dispel Magic at will is indeed a nifty ability.  Of course, when you're doing all this dispelling, you can't activate your invisibility, nor can you use your Eldritch Blast.  But that's neither here nor there.  The assumption is that most things parties of adventurers face are monsters, and monsters aren't usually buffed.  Consider that a sorcerer can cast Dispel Magic on his party members who are Charmed, Slowed, Held, etc. without having to worry about harming them.  Not that 1 HP/spell level is a huge damage effect anyway.  Certainly not worth worrying about as a balancing factor in the power.  Not compared to 3d6/round you could be doing otherwise.Besides, what's all this about "mopping up" hard to reach targets.  As soon as the targets realize you're planning to just sit back and let the warlock pick them off, they're going to change plans...right?  If they're that far out of reach, they can probably get cover.  And a fireball in the right place can make cover totally irrelevent.Energy Substitution is actually pretty sweet if you know what you're going to be fighting.  All demons and devils are vulnerable to lightning, for example.  Hardly anything other than outsiders have multiple energy resistances, so if one type doesn't work, the other probably will.  Most outsiders you face at low levels are probably going to be Summoned anyway, so just dispel them.And please note what I mention above concerning the 6th level warlock's 4 invocations and the incompatibility of certain of the more nifty ones.Say what now?  A downed cleric is what potions are for.  And keeping the cleric up is why the cleric gets to wear heavy armour, something the warlock can't do...which will put him in a spot of trouble when the smart opposition decides to take out the sniper that's been blasting them.Definitely nice.  And expensive.  Look, I'm not trying to argue that the warlock sucks.  He's pretty nifty.  What I'm arguing is that he's not significantly more powerful than any other full class I can pull out of a splatbook.  He's good at a few things, and has some important weaknesses.Oh, Dispel Magic, See invisibility, Dimension Door, and Spider Climb, just for starters.  Funny how the more useful sorcerer spells found their way into warlock invocations.Oh and watch the "I guess you simply miss..."  That's just insulting.</blockquote>

Verification