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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Zephyrus" data-source="post: 1884519" data-attributes="member: 8728">I have to agree that I have concerns about several of the new alternate classes. Magic always seems to do that. Context often has a big determining factor in what is balenced and what is not. In most cases it appears the warlock is fairly balenced and fair and quite reasonable. However their appear to be ways to break the mold and that is what I Think many people are realy worried about. I tend to make the characters for my groups. Mostly cause I guess in some ways I'm good at breaking the mold. I dont think myself a powergamer. But I can come up with power designs. I like my characters to feel they are effective.  So recently a friend wanted to DM a game and with CA just out we opted to do an all Arcane Party. The group started at everyone at 3rd level.Gray Elf WarmageHalf-Elf Bard*Human SorcererHalf-Orc Warlock*(*we're using house rules where the Half-Elves get +2 CHA/-2 CON and Half-Orc get Toughness as a Bonus feat at 1st level and +1 HP each level after 1st)The Warmage has a 20 INT and a 18 CHA and the Spellcasting Prodigy feat.The Bard issently anything spectacular save for being a great performer.The Sorcerer is taking several of the Draconic Heritage feats and is going to become a Dragon Disciple.The Half-Orc has taken Medium Armor Profiency and Battlecaster as feats and Hidious Blow as one of its Invocations. It uses a Warmace 2 Handed(we're also using the weapon groups optional rules from AU?)What we ended up with was a VERY VERY Powerful party that was also extreamly fragile. Enemies able to stand up to the punishment we could throw at them were either deadly to the party or were no contest.A Grayelf Warmage at 1st level with a 20 INT can cast Magic Missile 3+ times dealing 1d4+6 damage! The Half-Orc has a 20 STR. At 1st level. Combined with his Hidious Blow he can deal 1d12 (Waremace) +7 (1-1/2 STR) + 1d6. Even if he was wearing light armor thats a tremendious amount of damage for a character to dish out. (Okay, not much more than a Half-Orc Fighter, but its still alot of damage and Concievably goes up to +2 or even +3d6 before the Fighter starts getting his itterative attacks.As I said the party's fragile so the challenge for hte DM to do encounters that is a problem. It just seems to me that several items appear to be too easily used in the extreame. Even w/o using the house rules  to use weapon groups. The Warlock and Warmage come across to me both as classes that can be taken advantage of more than others. OR at least sufficient restraints were not designed into their abilities. At least how powerful/easily abused they might be at various levels.</blockquote>

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