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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Runestar" data-source="post: 4513136" data-attributes="member: 72317">Why don't you just run some numbers up before and after applying metamagic feats?For example, in the case of empower spell, where x = no.of damage die.Let 3.5x = 1.5*3.5(x-2))3.5x = 5.25x - 10.51.75x = 10.5, x = 6Note: 3.5 represents the average damage for each die (ie: average of 1d6 = 3.5).So for empower spell, its pointless prior to warlock11. At lv11, you are indifferent for damage, since 6d6 is mathematically the same as 1.5*4d6 (actually worse off, because of the save dc penalty). At lv14+, it gets better. But even then, the damage increase is very minimal (at lv20, 9d6 averages 31.5, 1.5*7d6 = 36.75), barely worth the effort.As for maximize.Let 3.5x * 6(x-3)3.5x = 6x - 1818 = 2.5x, x = 7.2, round up to 8. So maximize is really only worth it at lv17+ (assuming you are willing to stomach the -3DC penalty). But there is no point using it over empower spell (at lv20, 6d6max gives you just 36 damage, as opposed to empower's 36.75.Repeat for twin and any other metamagic feats you want to use, but my guess is that the outcome will be the same - they will suck at lower lvs up to a certain point, and then become a free (albeit minor) boost thereafter.My conclusion is that it would be a very bad idea, since it cannot be uniformly useful at all lvs, and the benefit is way too minor to warrant the expenditure of a feat (even if you can stomach the dc decrease).</blockquote>