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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ZombieRoboNinja" data-source="post: 5994454" data-attributes="member: 54843">I had been worrying about sorcerers outshining wizards, not fighters. Compared to the fighter, the sorcerer gets slightly worse HP/HD, worse attack bonuses, more MAD (he needs Cha), and of course no CS. He does get spells, of course, and at first glance that would seem really overpowered. 8 Arc Lightnings at level 5! But when you look at damage, a fighter with a longbow is doing 3d8+Dex damage at a longer range by level 5 (avg 13.5+dex, so maybe 16.5) while the Arc Lightning is doing 5d6 (17.5) to the primary target and 2d6 (7) to the secondary. Better damage, sure, but limited times per day.So offensively, the sorcerer has a narrow edge when he's burning through spell points (and a more significant edge against groups of enemies, thanks to his AOE spells). But that's kind of the point of a limited-resource arcane spellcaster. Defensively, he's a bit worse off than the fighter on every front except AC, where he's even.Personally, I could see knocking him down to medium armor proficiency (something about a "pure" arcane caster in plate armor rubs me the wrong way) and maybe even getting rid of shield proficiency (since it's goofy to imagine him sheathing a weapon every time he needs a free hand to cast a spell anyway).As for the warlock vs. rogue conundrum - IMHO, teleports and etherealness aren't really stepping on the rogue's toes, since the rogue can't do those things to begin with. Yeah, the warlock can conjure up a puddle of oil, but so can a wizard, and a rogue can carry one around with him nonmagically just fine.  A warlock is better at escaping jail, but a rogue is better at infiltrating an enemy base without instantly having every monster in a mile radius notice him walking through walls into a room full of orcs and then trying to crouch in a broom closet for ten minutes to ask his patron for some more juice. Charming a room full of people is awesome, but even the 2hp goblins get saves. I'd have to playtest to see how they measure up.</blockquote>

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