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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Distracted DM" data-source="post: 9858736" data-attributes="member: 6894926">I've had trouble with warlocks all through 5e, and I could use some insights from other folk. Maybe I just need the discussion.I've been playing and running since AD&D, so I have solid ideas of what the strictures of a cleric and paladin should be, where their powers come from, and the responsibilities of those classes. In some ways, they're still baked into the class, even if 5e has handwaved a lot of it away. But Warlocks, as they are now, are a 5e construct. A paladin's power is drawn from their oath, their faith (in that oath or deity). I still ask paladins players to pick a deity or something in that vein.Clerics get their powers from their deity, their faith, etc. Warlocks, according to their 5e14 class description, get their power in exchange for performing services for their patron. Here's one hurdle: the warlock actually gets their power by leveling up- whether it's experience points or milestone leveling, the warlock doesn't need to be doing anything for their patron to "gain power." You could say similar things about clerics and paladins, but a paladin just has to keep to their oath- a cleric just needs to adhere to their faith. If they violate those, then there's trouble; class changes, power-stripping, the kind of stuff that doesn't actually happen at most tables but the mechanical suggestion is there, both consequence and requirement. A warlock is ... a lot less "firm" in what the heck it needs to be doing, if anything. And if you do start to require things of the warlock, that seems to put a lot more focus on that one player. They need to acquire the Jewel of Kabaz if they want to level up. If they don't ... do they level up anyway? Whether you're doing experience or milestone leveling via quests/story arcs, is the warlock leveling at a different pace than others? Probably not. So does their patron matter, outside of mechanics?I guess there's just so little provided to work with as a DM, and so much more of an expectation- the warlock-patron relationship seems closer/more "present" than a paladin oath/cleric faith because supposedly warlocks need to be periodically doing direct tasks for their patron if they want more class features. I've been trying to nail down my issues, and to figure out solutions- I guess the other thing is, it seems like almost anything can be a warlock patron. You don't need a deity- lowish-CR creatures can be warlock patrons.. So it's hard to make a list of strictures n' such for warlocks.. since their patrons are basically "whatever." I don't know, I'm still trying to figure this one out. Maybe it's just about GMing style, but again I've never had a problem with paladins n' clerics. Has anyone else had this problem with warlocks?</blockquote>

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