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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Warlocks' patrons vs. Paladin Oaths and Cleric Deities
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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9860078" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>Yup. The 5e version does but it also sandbags the GM when it comes to the patron actually doing that because every interaction can immediately be backhanded by the player with a show me the money rejection pushing for more and more sweetener from a patron instantly stuck resorting to "please please pretty please with sugar on top" while the other players are stuck twiddling their thumbs.</p><p></p><p>That's why so many of the posts trying to provide something constructive focus on the hurdles that 5e places between you the gm and the goal.</p><p></p><p>This kinda depends on your players being familiar enough with the tropes and willing to play ball but it could probably smooth over some of the rough edges by breaking open and spreading the sandbags around. BMy best suggestion is to put it out in the open and go a step further into litrpg than order of the stick does where it's just 4th wall breaking to where the characters know the mechanics of d&d. Pull back to curtain and have the patron "bless" the entire party with a step into system world trope </p><p>[Spoiler="system world"]</p><p>Unfortunately tv tropes does <strong>not</strong> have a useful entry for system or system world and <a href="https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=17710234300A92512400#comment-1" target="_blank">the closest analogs are an awful mess</a>. So <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+a+system+world+litrpg+&client=ms-android-blu-rvo3&hs=zwMp&sca_esv=17b8a313ff376b22&sxsrf=ANbL-n5BVTpMfT_xg4YAECeGKSOTuCEzxw%3A1771342424793&ei=WIqUaaiJMNaSwbkPm72SoQU&biw=320&bih=593&oq=what+is+a+system+world+litrpg+&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIh53aGF0IGlzIGEgc3lzdGVtIHdvcmxkIGxpdHJwZyAyBRAhGKABMgUQIRigATIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABMgUQIRifBTIFECEYnwUyBRAhGJ8FMgUQIRifBUiDPVD5FFi6OHABeAKQAQCYAa0BoAGFCaoBAzAuOLgBA8gBAPgBAZgCCqACvgrCAgQQABhHwgIGEAAYFhgewgILEAAYgAQYhgMYigXCAgcQIRigARgKwgIFEAAY7wXCAggQABiABBiiBJgDAOIDBRIBMSBAiAYBkAYIkgcDMi44oAebNLIHAzAuOLgHpArCBwUzLTUuNcgHsQGACAA&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#lfId=ChxjMe" target="_blank">Here's what Google describes:</a></p><p>A system world LitRPG is a subgenre of literary role-playing games (LitRPG) where the, normally, physical world is governed by, or merges with, a,,game-like,system,of,rules, stats, levels, skills, and quests. It features a,visible,interface, (often holographic) through which,characters,interact,with,this,system,to,progress,in,power, usually,not,in,a,VR,setting. </p><p>Key Characteristics of System World LitRPG:</p><p>The System as Rulemaker: An omniscient AI, magical force, or cosmic entity dictates the world's mechanics, assigning quests, managing stats, and defining classes.</p><p>Visible Progression: Characters have access to stat screens, skill trees, and inventory interfaces that quantify their power, common in both,Crunchy,and,Stat-Light,subgenres.</p><p>Game-like Interaction: The world operates on mechanics reminiscent of RPG video games or tabletop games, with leveling up and skill acquisition.</p><p>System Apocalypse/Integration: A common,trope,is,the,"System,Apocalypse," where the system abruptly appears in the real world, introducing monsters, magic, and,forced,survival,quests,. </p><p>Common Subtypes:</p><p>System Apocalypse: The world is forced into a,game-like,reality, abruptly, often collapsing existing civilization.</p><p>System Integration: The,system,slowly,merges,with,the,world,or,people,are,transported,into,one,.</p><p>Only MC has a System: A variation where,only,the,main,character,has,access,to,the,interface,. </p><p>These stories often focus on,progression,fantasy, elements, where the character,starts,weak,and,grinds,to,become,incredibly,powerful,by,exploiting,the,system's,rules,. </p><p>[/Spoiler]</p><p>The patron can interact with the warlock through it or seamlessly switch to any interested player's PC through the usual isekai/litrpg style system interactions if they get a cold shoulder. </p><p></p><p>Allow that system interface interaction to go both ways and have fun with letting the players have their PCs interact with the system. No need for rules to it, just have fun and see where it goes. Be clear that it's a thing granted to the PCs rather than the players though... Something like the ever common status/stats/character sheet should absolutely be allowed (<em>and maybe even hinted by the patron if players don't consider it quick</em>), but that comes in the form of "hand me your sheet" & whatever you feel like describing to the PC with a possible side dish of things like"what is your character looking to know". Of course just because they have access to the system and the system could potentially present quests ranging from a normal quest vto "convince [PC Bob] he's being unreasonable" to "<a href="https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/77972/syl-a-slime-monster-evolution-litrpg/chapter/2718627/chapter-307-sandy-freedom-book-5" target="_blank">slap the [PC]</a>" doesn't mean that they start out with full and unlimited no cost access to it and that they don't gain access to new bits useful to you/the patron or lose them as appropriate</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 9860078, member: 93670"] Yup. The 5e version does but it also sandbags the GM when it comes to the patron actually doing that because every interaction can immediately be backhanded by the player with a show me the money rejection pushing for more and more sweetener from a patron instantly stuck resorting to "please please pretty please with sugar on top" while the other players are stuck twiddling their thumbs. That's why so many of the posts trying to provide something constructive focus on the hurdles that 5e places between you the gm and the goal. This kinda depends on your players being familiar enough with the tropes and willing to play ball but it could probably smooth over some of the rough edges by breaking open and spreading the sandbags around. BMy best suggestion is to put it out in the open and go a step further into litrpg than order of the stick does where it's just 4th wall breaking to where the characters know the mechanics of d&d. Pull back to curtain and have the patron "bless" the entire party with a step into system world trope [Spoiler="system world"] Unfortunately tv tropes does [B]not[/B] have a useful entry for system or system world and [URL='https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=17710234300A92512400#comment-1']the closest analogs are an awful mess[/URL]. So [URL='https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+a+system+world+litrpg+&client=ms-android-blu-rvo3&hs=zwMp&sca_esv=17b8a313ff376b22&sxsrf=ANbL-n5BVTpMfT_xg4YAECeGKSOTuCEzxw%3A1771342424793&ei=WIqUaaiJMNaSwbkPm72SoQU&biw=320&bih=593&oq=what+is+a+system+world+litrpg+&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIh53aGF0IGlzIGEgc3lzdGVtIHdvcmxkIGxpdHJwZyAyBRAhGKABMgUQIRigATIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABMgUQIRifBTIFECEYnwUyBRAhGJ8FMgUQIRifBUiDPVD5FFi6OHABeAKQAQCYAa0BoAGFCaoBAzAuOLgBA8gBAPgBAZgCCqACvgrCAgQQABhHwgIGEAAYFhgewgILEAAYgAQYhgMYigXCAgcQIRigARgKwgIFEAAY7wXCAggQABiABBiiBJgDAOIDBRIBMSBAiAYBkAYIkgcDMi44oAebNLIHAzAuOLgHpArCBwUzLTUuNcgHsQGACAA&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#lfId=ChxjMe']Here's what Google describes:[/URL] A system world LitRPG is a subgenre of literary role-playing games (LitRPG) where the, normally, physical world is governed by, or merges with, a,,game-like,system,of,rules, stats, levels, skills, and quests. It features a,visible,interface, (often holographic) through which,characters,interact,with,this,system,to,progress,in,power, usually,not,in,a,VR,setting. Key Characteristics of System World LitRPG: The System as Rulemaker: An omniscient AI, magical force, or cosmic entity dictates the world's mechanics, assigning quests, managing stats, and defining classes. Visible Progression: Characters have access to stat screens, skill trees, and inventory interfaces that quantify their power, common in both,Crunchy,and,Stat-Light,subgenres. Game-like Interaction: The world operates on mechanics reminiscent of RPG video games or tabletop games, with leveling up and skill acquisition. System Apocalypse/Integration: A common,trope,is,the,"System,Apocalypse," where the system abruptly appears in the real world, introducing monsters, magic, and,forced,survival,quests,. Common Subtypes: System Apocalypse: The world is forced into a,game-like,reality, abruptly, often collapsing existing civilization. System Integration: The,system,slowly,merges,with,the,world,or,people,are,transported,into,one,. Only MC has a System: A variation where,only,the,main,character,has,access,to,the,interface,. These stories often focus on,progression,fantasy, elements, where the character,starts,weak,and,grinds,to,become,incredibly,powerful,by,exploiting,the,system's,rules,. [/Spoiler] The patron can interact with the warlock through it or seamlessly switch to any interested player's PC through the usual isekai/litrpg style system interactions if they get a cold shoulder. Allow that system interface interaction to go both ways and have fun with letting the players have their PCs interact with the system. No need for rules to it, just have fun and see where it goes. Be clear that it's a thing granted to the PCs rather than the players though... Something like the ever common status/stats/character sheet should absolutely be allowed ([I]and maybe even hinted by the patron if players don't consider it quick[/I]), but that comes in the form of "hand me your sheet" & whatever you feel like describing to the PC with a possible side dish of things like"what is your character looking to know". Of course just because they have access to the system and the system could potentially present quests ranging from a normal quest vto "convince [PC Bob] he's being unreasonable" to "[URL='https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/77972/syl-a-slime-monster-evolution-litrpg/chapter/2718627/chapter-307-sandy-freedom-book-5']slap the [PC][/URL]" doesn't mean that they start out with full and unlimited no cost access to it and that they don't gain access to new bits useful to you/the patron or lose them as appropriate [/QUOTE]
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