Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Million Dollar TTRPG Crowdfunders
Most Anticipated Tabletop RPGs Of The Year
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Warlocks' patrons vs. Paladin Oaths and Cleric Deities
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 9861036" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>Classes and levels are both player-facing constructs for creating player characters that are "balanced" against each other. We know they are in-world constructs looking at NPCs with the same names that don't follow the same mechanics. This was established back in 2014 when the MM had NPCs like "Druid" with 4th level casting and no wildshape, and has continued since in every published adventure and monster book since.</p><p></p><p>As words you in-world could call someone a "fighter" just as much as you could call them infantry, or warrior, or whatever word fits, and it will have the connotations of that word -- "barbarian" as a word has a meaning -- but since the classes themselves aren't in-world objects, there's no expectations that anyone except PCs will follow those specifically.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed, the ludodissonance when mechanics split from the narrative can be a huge issue. But remember it's really the effects of the mechanics. d20 + mod >= DC by itself isn't represented in-world, just the linear nature of skill vs. attempt. Same with classes, especially since as established the mechanical construct doesn't exist in-world.</p><p></p><p>I played a hunter who mechanically took the rogue class. I was great at aimed shots with my bow at prey that weren't expecting it or was distracted, could sneak up on them, took expertise in skills useful for an hunter. That there was a rogue class at a meta-level never touched the fiction, it's how does the <em>effects</em> of that class interacted with the fiction of the world that could work or not, and that was just fine.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 9861036, member: 20564"] Classes and levels are both player-facing constructs for creating player characters that are "balanced" against each other. We know they are in-world constructs looking at NPCs with the same names that don't follow the same mechanics. This was established back in 2014 when the MM had NPCs like "Druid" with 4th level casting and no wildshape, and has continued since in every published adventure and monster book since. As words you in-world could call someone a "fighter" just as much as you could call them infantry, or warrior, or whatever word fits, and it will have the connotations of that word -- "barbarian" as a word has a meaning -- but since the classes themselves aren't in-world objects, there's no expectations that anyone except PCs will follow those specifically. Agreed, the ludodissonance when mechanics split from the narrative can be a huge issue. But remember it's really the effects of the mechanics. d20 + mod >= DC by itself isn't represented in-world, just the linear nature of skill vs. attempt. Same with classes, especially since as established the mechanical construct doesn't exist in-world. I played a hunter who mechanically took the rogue class. I was great at aimed shots with my bow at prey that weren't expecting it or was distracted, could sneak up on them, took expertise in skills useful for an hunter. That there was a rogue class at a meta-level never touched the fiction, it's how does the [I]effects[/I] of that class interacted with the fiction of the world that could work or not, and that was just fine. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Warlocks' patrons vs. Paladin Oaths and Cleric Deities
Top