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<blockquote data-quote="Chris_Nightwing" data-source="post: 6047786" data-attributes="member: 882">I wouldn't want to require two checks for these sorts of abilities to work, for the reason you state. However, I think that the moment you make the check can be called wrongly. Come and Get It for instance, draws enemies in no matter their intelligence, their position, who they are also in combat with, their size, and so on. Then the Fighter might hit them or not. I would *much* rather have seen it expressed as an attack against Will, and if successful they are drawn in and the Fighter hits them automatically. I mean, he's luring or tricking them into surrounding him - as part of that he can easily lure or trick them into getting hit by his sword.For the Warlord power, similarly, I'd rather see a wisdom save to see if his gambit/lure works on the enemy, and if it does then he and his allies deal damage automatically to that enemy (probably balanced here by using the expertise dice as damage or at least disallowing ability modifiers). I think that's more thematic - it doesn't matter how heavily armoured that guy is, if you trick him into doing something stupid, everyone gets to wail on him.Edit: I actually could imagine some abilities that require two checks to hit, and the tradeoff would be a powerful effect or additional damage or affecting many creatures. Come and Get It could be an attack vs. Will, then an attack vs. AC, and you deal full damage to multiple enemies. The Warlord ability could be Wisdom save, then attacks vs. AC with allies dealing full damage, since you get a lot more damage potential than a standard attack out of it. I might run some maths to see where the tradeoff lies.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Chris_Nightwing, post: 6047786, member: 882"] I wouldn't want to require two checks for these sorts of abilities to work, for the reason you state. However, I think that the moment you make the check can be called wrongly. Come and Get It for instance, draws enemies in no matter their intelligence, their position, who they are also in combat with, their size, and so on. Then the Fighter might hit them or not. I would *much* rather have seen it expressed as an attack against Will, and if successful they are drawn in and the Fighter hits them automatically. I mean, he's luring or tricking them into surrounding him - as part of that he can easily lure or trick them into getting hit by his sword. For the Warlord power, similarly, I'd rather see a wisdom save to see if his gambit/lure works on the enemy, and if it does then he and his allies deal damage automatically to that enemy (probably balanced here by using the expertise dice as damage or at least disallowing ability modifiers). I think that's more thematic - it doesn't matter how heavily armoured that guy is, if you trick him into doing something stupid, everyone gets to wail on him. Edit: I actually could imagine some abilities that require two checks to hit, and the tradeoff would be a powerful effect or additional damage or affecting many creatures. Come and Get It could be an attack vs. Will, then an attack vs. AC, and you deal full damage to multiple enemies. The Warlord ability could be Wisdom save, then attacks vs. AC with allies dealing full damage, since you get a lot more damage potential than a standard attack out of it. I might run some maths to see where the tradeoff lies. [/QUOTE]

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