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Warlord as a Fighter option; Assassin as a Rogue option
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6049007" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>That's one of the subjective parts here.</p><p></p><p>To me, and to scads of D&D players, <em>this stuff does matter</em>. </p><p></p><p>Some mechanics DO model how a cleric casts spells differently (arcane spell failure chance in heavy armor, domain spells, spontaneous healing, the existence of spellbooks versus accessing the entire spell list). I love those mechanics! These help reinforce the cleric as a more passive recipient of magic, than an active crafter of it -- it's easier for them. Those aren't trivial things, they're important to pretending to <strong>be</strong> that character. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, it's a game, but it's a game about pretending to be an imaginary person. Just like how telling-not-showing can rip you out of the world of a novel or a film, tautological abstract mechanics can rip you out of the imaginary world of the game (and, similarly, people have much different thresholds for these things). Actors and performers and writers reinforce the truth of their make-believe world by paying attention to the details that build their stories. Characters have a "life of their own" because they react to the imaginary world, not to what you want them to do in the real world. My games need to do that, too. If a game I'm playing wants a fighter to be at the centre of the action, it has to employ mechanics that make this their outcome, not simply dictate that it is true. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's not a starting point, though. It's proven through actions: the OD&D MU has a spellbook with a lot of spells in it and with powerful high-level spells that can change the world and that's exactly what you'd expect out of a master of magic. They teleport, they dominate, they shape weather -- heady stuff that demonstrates their mastery of the unseen world.</p><p></p><p>The Fighter needs to have a REASON they are at the center of the action. If there's no supporting evidence, it's not believable. It's not fun if I can't pretend that I'm playing people in this make-believe world, and that requires the actual details of <em>WHY</em> the fighter is at the center of the action. "Because that's the end we want to achieve," is far too artificial for me to be comfortable with on a regular basis. If that's the end you want to achieve, show your work. Do it. Don't just declare it done.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6049007, member: 2067"] That's one of the subjective parts here. To me, and to scads of D&D players, [I]this stuff does matter[/I]. Some mechanics DO model how a cleric casts spells differently (arcane spell failure chance in heavy armor, domain spells, spontaneous healing, the existence of spellbooks versus accessing the entire spell list). I love those mechanics! These help reinforce the cleric as a more passive recipient of magic, than an active crafter of it -- it's easier for them. Those aren't trivial things, they're important to pretending to [B]be[/B] that character. Yes, it's a game, but it's a game about pretending to be an imaginary person. Just like how telling-not-showing can rip you out of the world of a novel or a film, tautological abstract mechanics can rip you out of the imaginary world of the game (and, similarly, people have much different thresholds for these things). Actors and performers and writers reinforce the truth of their make-believe world by paying attention to the details that build their stories. Characters have a "life of their own" because they react to the imaginary world, not to what you want them to do in the real world. My games need to do that, too. If a game I'm playing wants a fighter to be at the centre of the action, it has to employ mechanics that make this their outcome, not simply dictate that it is true. It's not a starting point, though. It's proven through actions: the OD&D MU has a spellbook with a lot of spells in it and with powerful high-level spells that can change the world and that's exactly what you'd expect out of a master of magic. They teleport, they dominate, they shape weather -- heady stuff that demonstrates their mastery of the unseen world. The Fighter needs to have a REASON they are at the center of the action. If there's no supporting evidence, it's not believable. It's not fun if I can't pretend that I'm playing people in this make-believe world, and that requires the actual details of [I]WHY[/I] the fighter is at the center of the action. "Because that's the end we want to achieve," is far too artificial for me to be comfortable with on a regular basis. If that's the end you want to achieve, show your work. Do it. Don't just declare it done. [/QUOTE]
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Warlord as a Fighter option; Assassin as a Rogue option
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