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Message: <blockquote data-quote="El Mahdi" data-source="post: 6733582" data-attributes="member: 59506"><img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/erm.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":erm:" title="Erm    :erm:" data-shortname=":erm:" />I realize you were joking - to an extent - but to an extent you also weren't joking, and revealing some of the bias in your argument.Leader archetypes have been around far longer than 4th Edition - far longer even than RPG's - far longer than recorded history itself.And the Warlord is most definitely a Leader.Wrong.  A military apprentice is by definition, a Private (or comparable rank).  Sergeants and Generals are not apprentice anything.Notice also that the Soldier background says nothing about Leadership.  Sergeants and Generals become such because they have received training (or training through experience) in Leadership.Do you somehow think that people in the military simply become Sergeants merely as a matter of time and rank?No.  They receive formal training in Leadership.  In the Air Force, it's actually called Airman Leadership School.  In the Army it's called the Warrior Leader Course.Officers receive leadership training also - not just training in the knowledge officers should have (how units work, combat tactics and strategy, etc.), but actual training in how to be a Leader.There's increasing levels of Leadership training as one progresses through the ranks - training that is a requirement prior to wearing those ranks.Leadership is a skill.  Warlords are characters that have cultivated that skill to the level of Expert.The Soldier background does not provide either a mechanic or a narrative that expresses that.There's no way that giving a character the rank of Sergeant or General with the Soldier background should happen with a 1st level character.  While there's nothing in the PHB to say you can't, and one can certainly do anything one wants in their own games/groups, one who does this is displaying a poor understanding of how such things work or simply doesn't care about a consistent narrative.  It's fine to do so in one's game, but a narrative inconsistent with a class concept or the game's conceits is hardly an argument against the concept.Not to mention that the Soldier background shouldn't be a requirement to be a Warlord.  The Leader archetype is not exclusive to the military.The more I contemplate making the Warlord a prestige class, the more it just fits for me.A Paladin is "called" to be a Paladin either through faith to a supernatural entity or devotion to an existential force.  That concept works for me at any level.  It doesn't require cultivation of a skill or role.And technically, the first four levels are apprentice levels.While I can see the argument for a Warlord from 1st level, I think the Prestige Class idea just fits better.  One, it allows any class to become an Expert Leader - something that a dedicated class or class archetype only does while bringing in other conceptual baggage that may be inconsistent with what one is trying to model.  Two, I like the idea of those first three levels (or four) being an apprentice leader - likely with the Inspiring Leader Feat as a pre-requisite for the Prestige Class.  In line with the guidelines they've laid down in the UA article, they should probably also have displayed leadership of some sort: taking the lead in something, likely at their own expense; doing the right thing (leading by example), likely at their own expense; aiding others (as a guide/mentor), again likely at their own expense.  The Prestige Class could be devoid of the martial baggage that other classes - and even a dedicated class - would bring to it.  A Prestige Class could focus on only the Leadership, Inspiration/Support, and Tactician/Strategist aspects without the martial baggage - allowing for a Druid Leader, Rogue Leader, or Wizard Leader as well as the more obvious Fighter Leaders and Bard Leaders.With the Warlord being worked on in the Warlording the Fighter thread, I'm still pursuing all possible avenues - dedicated class, expanded Battle Master and Valor Bard archetypes, Feats for any character to take that model the Warlord, and even possible archetypes for other classes - but I'm definitely going to include a Prestige Class now also; and it's in the front running as my personal preference.</blockquote>

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