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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6670867" data-attributes="member: 2067">Well, in the first place, there's nothing about a Fighter that doesn't let them get Persuasion. Get Persuasion. Pick (or make) a background.And in the second place: bounded accuracy. You can make Charisma checks as much as you want. Be a Sailor and don't scrimp on your CHA. Nothing is going to have an unbeatable DC - especially not normal grunt commoner NPC's. They'd probably listen to you with an 8 CHA just because you're tough. You don't need a big shiny badge that WotC gives you that says "Official Ship Captain Class." Just be a ship captain. Say that's what you are. There's nothing stopping you. There's no narrow specific definition of "ship captain" that the fighter fails to meet. The complaint I was addressing was this idea that you were somehow unable to be a decent ship's captain with the Fighter class. You can be a fine ship's captain with the Fighter class. You can be a fine ship's captain with any class. All you need to do to be a fine ship's captain is probably get some folks to listen to you on a ship, and you can do that in 5e as written regardless of class and almost regardless of ability scores/proficiencies. Can Fighters not take the Help action?Useful, or required? These are two different goalposts. Multiple attacks are useful, too - what with the buckling of swashes and all. If you're looking for at official class features from WotC, that's just factually incorrect (see level 7). No class can fight as good as the fighter. Also, no class can range as well as the ranger or sorcer as well as the sorcerer.I don't buy it. Noncombat spells don't do much without skill checks to back 'em up (as I think you are reminded every time your druid has to roll a Persuasion check). Do Battlemasters not tell people to attack or give people advantage or rally people with temp hp or any of that? To be a commander outside of combat, just do it. Be a sea captain (sailor) or a knight or a noble or an officer in the army (soldier) or whatever. Charisma might be employed, or it might not - certainly a low CHA doesn't stop orc chiefs from amassing armies. Keep in mind, I don't have any problems bringing more warlord to 5e (I've got high hopes for the Purple Dragon Knight). Where you go off the rails is when you imply that the current fighter is somehow deeply flawed. You can want new warlord hotness without presuming that the 5e fighter is broken or weak as it is.I mean, I can whip up a vanilla 5e battlemaster and have a character who, at level 5, can help on a skill check or heal an ally without spending their action (Action Surge with the Help action or a healing potion), and then on the same turn attack an enemy, give an ally advantage to hit it, and then give an ally next to it a free attack with extra damage or move a more distant ally closer to it. It could even have lower HP and lighter armor than most other fighters (a Dex-focused build with the 8 going into Con would work nicely), doing that with a bow if it wants to be really arrogant, or with a polearm or a "dueling weapon" like a rapier if it's a lead-from-the-front type. If I wanted to pump CHA (which, as established, isn't really necessary, but lets say I'm into this pretty pretty princess), my accuracy wouldn't suffer critically against most targets (thanks, Bounded Accuracy!). I might want to bust out a net or something to get advantage myself when the target is in heavy armor. Depending on my background, I have retainers (three NPC's the RAW lets me boss around), the respect of commoners, or the ability to secure passage on a ship. I get that I don't have a lot of at-will buffs (though my nova potential is grand, and my action economy gives me room for things like the Help action or to initiate grabs), that I don't have true healing, etc. But that character is in no way a deficient as a leader, in combat or out of it. I don't have any issues with bringing on more warlord-esque stuff, but when you tell me that the current fighter can't do something, I get suspicious. The "leader of men" is a thing in 5e. It might not be in exactly the mechanical framework you would find most ideal, but it's there.</blockquote>

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