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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 6671992" data-attributes="member: 37579">None of those are reasons to include a class. The same could be said for any of a half-dozen classes from any edition. Really, the strongest and most honest reason anyone can give for including the warlord boils down to "because I like it!" Which is great. I'd kinda like the jester class from Dragon magazine to be officially updated too. Or the shadow assassin class; the assassin is a classic that was in the 1e PHB. There are lots of good reasons to exclude it that have NOTHING directly to do with the edition wars, they were just coined during the edition wars. That doesn't invalidate them. Just because you've heard an argument before or are tired of it, doesn't mean people don't have the same opinions. It's not about depriving others of options. It's about excluding elements people don't want in their game, and instead designing something they do want in their game. People are pretty accepting of new things, so long as they work with the lore and tone of their game. The sorcerer was accepted, the warlock was accepted, and even the dragonborn were accepted. People like good ideas, and the popular good ideas stick around. Really, it's as much about a lack of compromise than anything. Just because something failed once doesn't mean it's an invalid source of inspiration and new ideas, or can form the basis for a functional class. Arguably, the warlord grew out of the so-so marshal. If you just ignore the good ideas with bad implementation, you seldom succeed at anything. Is anyone here? But we're still making the effort.  Then why are you here?Seriously. The first paragraph of the first post of the topic says "what sort of tweaks to the fighter class would support the Warlord play style? The purpose of this thread is to propose and critique minor variations on the fighter that would help." The thread is a game design thread. If you're just here to poop on other people's designs without offering any improvements or mechanics of your own, then you're not really generating any constructive and useful feedback. Which is the problem with threads like these. 275 posts and 90% are people arguing and anyone who does attempt any real design work is ignored or shouted at and scared off for not meeting some arbitrary design goals of the class. It's been a year since the launch of the game, plenty enough time for someone to design a half-dozen fan classes. There's probably a few dozen warlords out there. Where's the definitive fan warlord? How come one hasn't been embraced as "the best"?A fan class has to be even more balanced than an official one to be considered for anyone's game. If it's not rock solid, no one will look at it twice.</blockquote>

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