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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 6144613" data-attributes="member: 17106">In whatever way that makes sense for the health system you're using. For those examples, psionic damage or energy drain would cause real physical wounds, so they would be treated similarly to things that do.There are several perfectly viable alternative health systems for D&D. Unearthed Arcana had at least three. The point is not that hp not an abstraction. Pooling different types of physical wounds together is very abstract. The point is that there needs to be a separation between things that are physical wounds and those that are not.I know I had 2e bards casting cures, so it must have been in some supplement somewhere, if not in the original core rules. They definitely can in Baldur's Gate.Yes. Exactly. That's why vp/wp systems are so great. You can do all kinds of things to vp, because they clearly aren't real wounds, but leave wounds to be treated more "realistically". That being said, there is no more need to have a nonmagical (or magical, for that matter) class focused on shouting back your energy and vitality than there is to have a class focused on shouting your wounds closed.Some fair points in there. I think that PF's mythic rules might do something for you. I disagree that grappling dragons is part of the "milieu", but it should be a possibility somewhere in extreme cases of the rules. I've also always been of the mind that magic should work the way skills and feats do, and basically every class should look like the fighter, only with different class skills and bonus feats.Some of those spells are pretty dubious, it's true. They're usually fixable while maintaining how the game works in general. That being said, in practice most casters won't choose those spells. It makes more sense to just let the rogue and fighter do their thing and learn spells that aren't redundant to their abilities.None of those strike me as being particularly supernatural or not well modeled by existing classes. Neither is any of them a warlord.</blockquote>

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