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[Warlords] Should D&D be tied to D&D Worlds?
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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 6144822" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Oy.</p><p></p><p>By questioning the premise, you're missing the point of the thought experiment. An item like this allows a battle captain to keep their friends going in a fight by means of inspiration. It meets the needs you claim to have. It also meets Neonchameleon's stated needs of non-magical spike healing. </p><p></p><p>The premise is that this thing works and the game is designed like this and that it is well balanced and all that. In order for us to get anything useful out of this thought experiment, you need to first be able to imagine that this premise is true in some impossible way. </p><p></p><p>I want to find out if your needs may be more complex than what you stated them as. They seem to be something else. I'm trying to get this mantra to be examined, so that we can decide what your <em>actual</em> requirements are, so that I can talk about them with you coherently. If the item doesn't work conceptually, then your needs can't possibly be as simple as you've stated them. </p><p></p><p>That's conceptually. In order to find that out, we need to accept the premise, accept a game in which items carry that weight and are well-balanced and basically that this concept works mechanically. They just do. Accept the premise. Battle commanders can now keep their allies fighting with inspiration simply by spending some GP. This is the reality that we're operating under -- how realistic it is or how like previous D&D games it is is superfluous. Operate as if this is the case. Either this item then meets your requirements (as it seems to be OK for [MENTION=2303]Starfox[/MENTION]), or it doesn't and your requirements are actually more complex than just a battle commander that can keep their allies fighting with inspiration. </p><p></p><p>If X, then what? Don't tell me how it can't be X. That's not useful. That's not the question I'm asking. If X, <strong>then what</strong>? If this item exists and thus meets your stated needs, how does that reveal what your needs actually are?</p><p></p><p>(As an aside, this isn't remarkably different than what the wands of Cure X Wounds in 3e became. It's also not very far removed from 1e/OD&D and the view of equipment as the major class feature. But since I'm not seriously proposing this as a solution, none of that is really relevant.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd%2F4ll%2F20130415" target="_blank">Ah, but compared to a +1 ability score bump?</a> We haven't seen it in the playtest yet, but it's been advertised that feats in 5e might be <em>huge</em>. Tossing out some heals, or +1 to an ability score (a power on par with old school <em>Wish</em>)? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You're wrong about the premise. It is a mundane item. No more magical than a greatsword or full plate.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It's no more a magic item than the a warhorse or a heavy shield. It's part of your character's equipment. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You seem to have a pre-existing notion of what a feat can be (along with pemerton's pre-existing notion of what a class feature can be).</p><p></p><p>Remove that notion. Imagine a world in which feats are comparable to, say, a +1 to an ability score. Accept the premise that feats can be this powerful.</p><p></p><p>Does a feat then work?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 6144822, member: 2067"] Oy. By questioning the premise, you're missing the point of the thought experiment. An item like this allows a battle captain to keep their friends going in a fight by means of inspiration. It meets the needs you claim to have. It also meets Neonchameleon's stated needs of non-magical spike healing. The premise is that this thing works and the game is designed like this and that it is well balanced and all that. In order for us to get anything useful out of this thought experiment, you need to first be able to imagine that this premise is true in some impossible way. I want to find out if your needs may be more complex than what you stated them as. They seem to be something else. I'm trying to get this mantra to be examined, so that we can decide what your [I]actual[/I] requirements are, so that I can talk about them with you coherently. If the item doesn't work conceptually, then your needs can't possibly be as simple as you've stated them. That's conceptually. In order to find that out, we need to accept the premise, accept a game in which items carry that weight and are well-balanced and basically that this concept works mechanically. They just do. Accept the premise. Battle commanders can now keep their allies fighting with inspiration simply by spending some GP. This is the reality that we're operating under -- how realistic it is or how like previous D&D games it is is superfluous. Operate as if this is the case. Either this item then meets your requirements (as it seems to be OK for [MENTION=2303]Starfox[/MENTION]), or it doesn't and your requirements are actually more complex than just a battle commander that can keep their allies fighting with inspiration. If X, then what? Don't tell me how it can't be X. That's not useful. That's not the question I'm asking. If X, [B]then what[/B]? If this item exists and thus meets your stated needs, how does that reveal what your needs actually are? (As an aside, this isn't remarkably different than what the wands of Cure X Wounds in 3e became. It's also not very far removed from 1e/OD&D and the view of equipment as the major class feature. But since I'm not seriously proposing this as a solution, none of that is really relevant.) [URL="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd%2F4ll%2F20130415"]Ah, but compared to a +1 ability score bump?[/URL] We haven't seen it in the playtest yet, but it's been advertised that feats in 5e might be [i]huge[/I]. Tossing out some heals, or +1 to an ability score (a power on par with old school [I]Wish[/I])? You're wrong about the premise. It is a mundane item. No more magical than a greatsword or full plate. It's no more a magic item than the a warhorse or a heavy shield. It's part of your character's equipment. You seem to have a pre-existing notion of what a feat can be (along with pemerton's pre-existing notion of what a class feature can be). Remove that notion. Imagine a world in which feats are comparable to, say, a +1 to an ability score. Accept the premise that feats can be this powerful. Does a feat then work? [/QUOTE]
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