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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
[Warlords] Should D&D be tied to D&D Worlds?
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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6144843" data-attributes="member: 87792"><p>If it's an item anyone can buy then it's effectively an ability anyone can have so everyone gets spike healing - see my comments earlier about that. If it's an item that only a warlord can use then for most practical purposes it's a warlord class feature with a minor gear limitation applied. If it's an item you need a feat to use then it's a feat with a minor gear limitation applied.</p><p></p><p>What are the pre-requisites for using this thing? Because the item nature you've given it is simply a special effect.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What makes you think that +1 to an ability score is <em>that</em> powerful? First it can get overriden by e.g. Gauntlets of Ogre Power, or the monk capstone ability that sets all stats to 20.</p><p></p><p>But more importantly look at what it <em>actually does</em>.</p><p></p><p>Spend two feats on Strength as a fighter. That gets you +1 to hit. +1 to damage. +2 to certain rare saves. And a few small skill bonusses. One feat as a fighter <em>if your strength is odd</em> is pretty good. But I can think of a number of 4e feats of comparable power even for a fighter with an odd numbered strength. Starting with [] Expertise, Superior Will, Superior Fortitude, and a wide array of multiclass feats (including, yes, ones that get you spike healing). And a feat dropped in strength when it doesn't increase your strength bonus isn't that great. Throw in a number of Paragon and Epic feats and it's entirely possible to build a character in 4e where if you were to replace all the feats with +1 to their primary stat would probably be <em>less</em> effective overall. Even in 3.5 adding +2 to strength for a fighter (two feats) isn't much better than adding Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialisation in their favourite weapon - two feats known to be more than a little weak.</p><p></p><p>As for a power on par with <em>Wish</em>, um... no. Not even on par with a mere <em>single use</em> of wish This is the same difference as between spike healing and regeneration. It's on par with one of the least gamechanging uses of wish in a situation when you are not under pressure.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Then, as I said above, <em>what does it take to use it?</em> If a specific class then it's a very slightly obfuscated class feature. If anyone can then it's an ability everyone has, only slightly obfuscated. Or if only one member of the party can use one then it's effectively the party sheet I mentioned above.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. As I said. +1 to an ability score isn't <em>that</em> powerful. Imaginine that world? In 4e we're playing in that world. In fact in 4e we're playing in a world in which you can get pretty significant spike healing 1/day for less than the cost of a feat (the artificer multiclass is surgeless so is true healing and you can double multiclass into bard for Majestic Word and Skald's Aura - and all these multiclass feats also provide skill training).</p><p></p><p>Those are some of the best and most common multiclass feats in my experience - and far more useful than a mere +1 to a stat. Giving people panic buttons is worth far more than half of a stat bonus boost. But in Next the value of the feats would be much, much greater because spike healing is fundamentally rare and spike healing is one of those things made more valuable by scarcity.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 6144843, member: 87792"] If it's an item anyone can buy then it's effectively an ability anyone can have so everyone gets spike healing - see my comments earlier about that. If it's an item that only a warlord can use then for most practical purposes it's a warlord class feature with a minor gear limitation applied. If it's an item you need a feat to use then it's a feat with a minor gear limitation applied. What are the pre-requisites for using this thing? Because the item nature you've given it is simply a special effect. What makes you think that +1 to an ability score is [I]that[/I] powerful? First it can get overriden by e.g. Gauntlets of Ogre Power, or the monk capstone ability that sets all stats to 20. But more importantly look at what it [I]actually does[/I]. Spend two feats on Strength as a fighter. That gets you +1 to hit. +1 to damage. +2 to certain rare saves. And a few small skill bonusses. One feat as a fighter [I]if your strength is odd[/I] is pretty good. But I can think of a number of 4e feats of comparable power even for a fighter with an odd numbered strength. Starting with [] Expertise, Superior Will, Superior Fortitude, and a wide array of multiclass feats (including, yes, ones that get you spike healing). And a feat dropped in strength when it doesn't increase your strength bonus isn't that great. Throw in a number of Paragon and Epic feats and it's entirely possible to build a character in 4e where if you were to replace all the feats with +1 to their primary stat would probably be [I]less[/I] effective overall. Even in 3.5 adding +2 to strength for a fighter (two feats) isn't much better than adding Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialisation in their favourite weapon - two feats known to be more than a little weak. As for a power on par with [I]Wish[/I], um... no. Not even on par with a mere [I]single use[/I] of wish This is the same difference as between spike healing and regeneration. It's on par with one of the least gamechanging uses of wish in a situation when you are not under pressure. Then, as I said above, [I]what does it take to use it?[/I] If a specific class then it's a very slightly obfuscated class feature. If anyone can then it's an ability everyone has, only slightly obfuscated. Or if only one member of the party can use one then it's effectively the party sheet I mentioned above. No. As I said. +1 to an ability score isn't [I]that[/I] powerful. Imaginine that world? In 4e we're playing in that world. In fact in 4e we're playing in a world in which you can get pretty significant spike healing 1/day for less than the cost of a feat (the artificer multiclass is surgeless so is true healing and you can double multiclass into bard for Majestic Word and Skald's Aura - and all these multiclass feats also provide skill training). Those are some of the best and most common multiclass feats in my experience - and far more useful than a mere +1 to a stat. Giving people panic buttons is worth far more than half of a stat bonus boost. But in Next the value of the feats would be much, much greater because spike healing is fundamentally rare and spike healing is one of those things made more valuable by scarcity. [/QUOTE]
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