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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 6146845" data-attributes="member: 87792">Let me just stop you there.  In the versions of D&D with the absolute slowest healing, all hit points return to almost any character in about a month of rest (2hp/night).  Which is, coincidentally, about the time it takes a marathon runner to recover from going flat out in a big race.  In short hit points under the very slowest models recover about as fast as real world fatigue.  Hit points do not recover "very slowly" in any edition of D&D that I am aware of.  They recover overall at a rate ranging from "Real world fatigue" to "Action hero fatigue".As for broken limbs, 6 weeks in a cast is considered usual.  You're trying to abstract out the cast as something that doesn't actually slow people down when the hit point recovery is on track for fatigue on its own.  Right.Take both those factors into account and it might be possible that they represent broken bones, severed limbs (excuse me?  Are PCs now starfish-hybrids?), deep puncture wounds, and infections all abstracted out.  But I do not find it terribly plausible.And here all I can say is that I don't care how big dang a hero you are.  If I break your swordarm badly enough you are going to have to wield your sword in your off hand.I seriously, however, doubt that 5e is going to be the first version of D&D in history that doesn't assume metafictional hp, and has genuinely slow healing rates, broken arms, and everything else implied.There's a reason extended rests in my campaigns take longer than 8 hours.  And if you're down healing surges you are still fatigued and your wounds are still hurting.I don't think that anyone is telling you you can't have fun playing in a setting where people heal ridiculously fast from wounds and in which a broken arm gives no penalties.  I am, however, saying that it makes almost no fictional sense when compared to the mechanics of hit points - or to real world healing.  And as such the default should be one that actually makes physical sense.In short the damage was special effects.  I can get behind that.  Hit points as divine protection, luck, and magic.  This sort of thing is exactly what the "HP aren't meat" group are saying.Oh, agreed.  Which is one reason I love the 4e rest mechanics.  I've got one of my current groups terrorized using them right now.  Because I'm running survival horror and denying them their short rests.  I'm also taking 2hp off them here and d6 hp there.  They are scrabbling around right now for somewhere to rest and bandage their wounds - just a five minute breather.Call me a wierdo, but I have much stronger objections to a fighter's endurance being cleric or happy stick (wand of CLW or Lesser Vigor) derived than I do to warlords.  And this is one of the many reasons why HP and Healing Surges work much better for me than any previous D&D iteration.You mean it's a mix of skill and luck, with only a very few blows connecting fully?  Right.Also, how in your model do you account for critical hits?  When an orc wielding a greataxe makes a critical on a human what does that even mean?In short hp aren't meat and the damage is almost entirely cosmetic until you pass below a threshold.  This is the down the line "HP aren't meat" position.  Except that you also have HP as meat when the barbarian falls into lava at terminal velocity.You're asserting that HP aren't meat except when they are.  They are largely skill, luck, and fatigue - as you've just shown above.However 4e HP work perfectly if hit points include the ability to turn a blow into a less serious one.  As your HP do.And why do you accept the Skald's spike healing and not the Warlord's?  I genuinely can't see much of a difference.Inspirational healing doesn't work with HP as meat.  But it works perfectly with HP as the ability to turn a blow into a lesser one.  Which is the position you hold.  And HP as meat doesn't work with D&D recovery rates in any edition.  The only difference inspirational healing brings is that it points directly at the elephant in the room in the hp-as-meat style.But it isn't the actual wounds you are measuring.  Or CLW would have a proportional effect (the way it does in 4e)."If magic is unrestrained in the campaign, D&D quickly degenerates into a weird wizard show where players get bored quickly" - E. Gary Gygax Magic itself isn't uncool.  The idea that magic can and should be able to do anything is deeply uncool, and just throwing a standardised spell at problems stifles creativity and challenge.</blockquote>

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