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Message: <blockquote data-quote="charlesatan" data-source="post: 3393383" data-attributes="member: 20870">1) I think the problem that's stemming from this argument is the way you perceive warrior-mages are played. As I said in the previous post, we're thinking of method #1 which is buffing then attacking rather than flinging spells with a superior base attack. From an optimization standpoint, while do #2 with a warrior-mage when a straight out wizard or socrerer does just that? As for the ranged weapon suggestion, is it the first resort or the last resort? Because if it's not the former, then again, you're better off as a straight Wiz or Sor. If it's the latter, well, you honestly don't need to resort to that if you have a spare wand of fireballs tucked in somewhere.2) Yes, I know Clerics and Druids are on the top of the most powerful classes list. These warrior-mages, however, don't approach that level (although they are probably the next highest, below Wiz and Sor in my book). Still, that doesn't address that the Cleric can buff and tank (Divine Power, Divine Favor, Righteous Might, Greater Magic Weapon/Vestments) while still being able to cast spells (i.e. Flamestrike) and the same goes for Druids, arguably with a bigger edge (Polymorph for several hours in a day and still able to cast spells like Firestorm).Note that the one-level spell progression hit only happens in rare circumstances (achievable only by a Regional Feat in Forgotten Realms, and some aqcquiring the Outside type for the rest). Two is most likely the norm. Also, it's not the same as having access to spells of the same level as that of a sorcerer of equal level. Sorcerers at least can cast more spells per day compared to a Wizard/Ftr/Eldritch Knight. The hit is more pronounced if the spellcasting class was Sor instead of Wiz. Two levels of spellcasting progression lost is a big hit. That's why Arcane Trickster has full spellcasting progression even while retaining Sneak Attack damage AND spellcasting: because the three levels of Rog (or two other Sneak Attack levels) is a price in itself. Same goes with Mystic Theurge. In theory it might look good but in practice, it falls short of expectation (but by no means is it "weak"). See Corinth's argument.</blockquote>

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