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<blockquote data-quote="I'm Cleo" data-source="post: 3397156" data-attributes="member: 40615">StGabe,The whole disagreement comes down to different definitions of &quot;balance&quot;.&nbsp; Yours (predictably -- since you have actual game-designing experience) is based on how well certain PrCs conform to what you consider a &quot;clear design goal&quot;.&nbsp; Charlasatan and I (if I can speak for him a little here) use a more results-oriented definition of &quot;balance&quot;.&nbsp; I.e., in the game itself, is the Eldritch Knight more powerful than the other classes?&nbsp; Does an Eldritch Knight outshine the other characters on the battle map?&nbsp; You conclude that the Eldritch Knight doesn't conform to an underlying structure you've found in D&amp;D.&nbsp; Hey, I'll bet you're right -- you're the expert.&nbsp; But my answer would be, &quot;So?&quot;&nbsp; If you actually play with the class, does that deviation from the &quot;clear design goal&quot; actually translate into a dramatic difference in the game?&nbsp; I would say, &quot;No.&quot;&nbsp; And you'd reply, &quot;So?&nbsp; It's poorly designed!&quot;&nbsp; And around and around we go because we're starting from fundamentally different positions.I know this doesn't &quot;resolve&quot; the controversy, in terms of answering whether the Eldritch Knight is &quot;balanced&quot;, but I think we can just say, &quot;Okay, we're just looking at things differently, and continuing the argument on our original terms isn't going to get anywhere.&quot;I'm Cleo!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="I'm Cleo, post: 3397156, member: 40615"] StGabe, The whole disagreement comes down to different definitions of "balance". Yours (predictably -- since you have actual game-designing experience) is based on how well certain PrCs conform to what you consider a "clear design goal". Charlasatan and I (if I can speak for him a little here) use a more results-oriented definition of "balance". I.e., in the game itself, is the Eldritch Knight more powerful than the other classes? Does an Eldritch Knight outshine the other characters on the battle map? You conclude that the Eldritch Knight doesn't conform to an underlying structure you've found in D&D. Hey, I'll bet you're right -- you're the expert. But my answer would be, "So?" If you actually play with the class, does that deviation from the "clear design goal" actually translate into a dramatic difference in the game? I would say, "No." And you'd reply, "So? It's [i]poorly designed[/i]!" And around and around we go because we're starting from fundamentally different positions. I know this doesn't "resolve" the controversy, in terms of answering whether the Eldritch Knight is "balanced", but I think we can just say, "Okay, we're just looking at things differently, and continuing the argument on our original terms isn't going to get anywhere." I'm Cleo! [/QUOTE]

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