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Message: <blockquote data-quote="emoplato" data-source="post: 5722614" data-attributes="member: 97812">Okay, sorry, I got lost in the list, but the build I mentioned is a build that works against saving. The Shadowcraft Mage build uses abilities both in the class and outside the class so that even if they see through the illusion of the shadow evocation they get backlashed at equal or more damage, so it bypasses laws of evasion and mettle. Clerics, have many spells that will just get you because of your alignment  and nothing else. Also, you only have 7 manuevers known and 4 readied, in a realistic battle sense you will have the three diamond con. save counters and one good hit. A swordsage takes an entire round to recover one manuever, without feats. At least with your other build you had a consistent option to try to elude him and kill him if you got close. Now you will probably say that is what power attack/shock trooper THW is for, well not if they have hold the line, like a tank cleric could, then they have an AoO against which would easily succeed. Add a simple brutal surge property or knockback would stop you in your tracks in preparation for their turn.Here is what I say, find someone who is experienced with playing a caster and set up the match with this character or another. Also, I will say I am not of the camp that casters are complete king, but lumping them as one and assuming one character will kill them all is like saying I have military vehicle that will both trump a fighter jet and a tank. It isn't necessarily that you can't, but they have vastly different advantages for respective situations. Advantages one character can't entirely usurp and overcome.</blockquote>

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