Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Was AD&D1 designed for game balance?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Jeremy Ackerman-Yost" data-source="post: 5024564" data-attributes="member: 4720"><p><strong>Different xp necessary for level advancement</strong></p><p>No idea. They're pretty strange. I always assumed the weirdness of MU table was meant to show a slow apprenticeship, followed by a faster progression as magical fluency is achieved, and then another slow patch as mastery is accrued. You can argue that the different rates are there for "balance," but there's no "balance" reason for the non-linearity (or non-log-linearity, iirc).</p><p></p><p><strong>Demihuman level limits</strong></p><p>To maintain an otherwise nonsensical humanocentric world.</p><p></p><p><strong>Armor and weapon restrictions</strong></p><p>This one might actually be balance. But given how badly it achieves that, it's really more easily explained as flavor maintenance. Wizards are <em>supposed</em> to be frail guys in robes. Priests are <em>supposed</em> to not shed blood, etc.</p><p></p><p><strong>Ability score requirements</strong></p><p>This is entirely the anti-balance, even by the standard of the time. If I roll awesome, I am not merely rewarded by that inherent benefit. No no. In addition, I just get <em>even more awesome!!!</em> "Look all these 18s!!! Say Hello to Paladin Sir Awesome McKickaZZ!!!"</p><p></p><p>I now flashback to old AD&D CRPGs where you were rewarded infinitely if you just spent lots of time re-rolling stats when you built your character until awesomeness occurred "organically." Ah... wasted youth.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The only thing I can assume is that they were talking about something very different than the modern term "game balance." As others have already pointed out, "fairness" might be a better way to describe the term they were using.</p><p></p><p>This discussion has been illuminating, especially in combination with the Tomb of Horrors discussion that was around the other day. When this poll went up, I really did honestly believe there was zero attempt at balance in early editions of D&D. However, since some of y'all actually are experienced DMs (a rare species I have never met IRL), you have opened my eyes somewhat. If you played the game as written, with <em>tons</em> of character deaths, these mechanisms probably <em>did</em> supply some degree of balance. "Paladin Sir Awesome McKickaZZ" is still going to die relatively suddenly at some point, and when his player re-rolls, he'll roll some 3s and end up with "Farmer Bill the (sorta) Fighting Man" who is the equivalent of a speed bump for the monsters. (Don't put your lucky character rolling dice away too quick. You'll need them again soon)</p><p></p><p>That's Kool and the Gang if it's your cup of tea. But man... I think my middle school DM was smart to roll a different way. If some of the kids at the table lost their characters even a tenth as often as necessary to maintain that kind of balance, the game would have broken up in tears and vitriol in about 3 sessions. Character death proved to be the Yoko factor for every group I was ever in as a kid.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jeremy Ackerman-Yost, post: 5024564, member: 4720"] [B]Different xp necessary for level advancement[/B] No idea. They're pretty strange. I always assumed the weirdness of MU table was meant to show a slow apprenticeship, followed by a faster progression as magical fluency is achieved, and then another slow patch as mastery is accrued. You can argue that the different rates are there for "balance," but there's no "balance" reason for the non-linearity (or non-log-linearity, iirc). [B]Demihuman level limits[/B] To maintain an otherwise nonsensical humanocentric world. [B]Armor and weapon restrictions[/B] This one might actually be balance. But given how badly it achieves that, it's really more easily explained as flavor maintenance. Wizards are [i]supposed[/i] to be frail guys in robes. Priests are [i]supposed[/i] to not shed blood, etc. [B]Ability score requirements[/B] This is entirely the anti-balance, even by the standard of the time. If I roll awesome, I am not merely rewarded by that inherent benefit. No no. In addition, I just get [i]even more awesome!!![/i] "Look all these 18s!!! Say Hello to Paladin Sir Awesome McKickaZZ!!!" I now flashback to old AD&D CRPGs where you were rewarded infinitely if you just spent lots of time re-rolling stats when you built your character until awesomeness occurred "organically." Ah... wasted youth. The only thing I can assume is that they were talking about something very different than the modern term "game balance." As others have already pointed out, "fairness" might be a better way to describe the term they were using. This discussion has been illuminating, especially in combination with the Tomb of Horrors discussion that was around the other day. When this poll went up, I really did honestly believe there was zero attempt at balance in early editions of D&D. However, since some of y'all actually are experienced DMs (a rare species I have never met IRL), you have opened my eyes somewhat. If you played the game as written, with [i]tons[/i] of character deaths, these mechanisms probably [I]did[/I] supply some degree of balance. "Paladin Sir Awesome McKickaZZ" is still going to die relatively suddenly at some point, and when his player re-rolls, he'll roll some 3s and end up with "Farmer Bill the (sorta) Fighting Man" who is the equivalent of a speed bump for the monsters. (Don't put your lucky character rolling dice away too quick. You'll need them again soon) That's Kool and the Gang if it's your cup of tea. But man... I think my middle school DM was smart to roll a different way. If some of the kids at the table lost their characters even a tenth as often as necessary to maintain that kind of balance, the game would have broken up in tears and vitriol in about 3 sessions. Character death proved to be the Yoko factor for every group I was ever in as a kid. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Was AD&D1 designed for game balance?
Top