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<blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 5034071" data-attributes="member: 80487">They are close enough to impossible to roll up with 3d6 in order -- which naturally was not among the options presented.Yes. In the case of the barbarian, subtract the magic-users. What, there can't be any in the campaign? No; different model of campaign. How is the barbarian balanced? As a member of a small party of fighters (using Method V and Weapon Specialization), or even as a &quot;lone wolf&quot; ... like Conan or Thongor in so many stories.How about drow and deep gnomes? They're fine in the Depths of the Earth, especially as opponents of normal AD&amp;D PCs. An all-monsters campaign in the faerie underworld might be splendid. Mixed in with PCs of the standard surface-dwelling races, they are a recipe for trouble primarily (but not solely) because they are so powerful.Oriental Adventures? East is East, and West is West, and the East is better in every way. Dumb move, except that it appealed not only to fanciers of ninjas and samurai but to munchkins everywhere.Yes, but balance was not what he was after there. He wanted to keep at least the highest levels in the campaign packed with humans. Subtraction is key in 4e as well. It balances making the magicians more martial by making them less magical (and the warriors more so). Coming from previous games called D&amp;D, that means a net loss either of magic; or of class distinctions; or both.No, they were as much &quot;just ordinary&quot; as ever; but elves and paladins became &quot;just ordinary&quot;, too. That is nifty and spiffy and feytouched and dragonborn and all sorts of things ... but it is not what AD&amp;D1 was about.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ariosto, post: 5034071, member: 80487"] They are close enough to [i]impossible[/i] to roll up with 3d6 in order -- which naturally was [b]not among the options presented[/b]. Yes. In the case of the barbarian, subtract the magic-users. What, there can't be any in the campaign? No; [b]different model of campaign[/b]. How is the barbarian balanced? As a member of a small party of fighters (using Method V and Weapon Specialization), or even as a "lone wolf" ... like Conan or Thongor in so many stories. How about drow and deep gnomes? They're fine in the Depths of the Earth, especially as [i]opponents[/i] of normal AD&D PCs. An all-monsters campaign in the faerie underworld might be splendid. Mixed in with PCs of the standard surface-dwelling races, they are a recipe for trouble primarily (but not solely) because they are so powerful. [b]Oriental Adventures[/b]? East is East, and West is West, and the East is better in every way. Dumb move, except that it appealed not only to fanciers of ninjas and samurai but to munchkins everywhere. Yes, but balance was not what he was after there. He wanted to keep at least the highest levels in the campaign packed with humans. Subtraction is key in 4e as well. It balances making the magicians more martial by making them less magical (and the warriors more so). Coming from previous games called D&D, that means a net loss either of magic; or of class distinctions; or both. No, they were as much "just ordinary" as ever; but elves and paladins became "just ordinary", too. That is nifty and spiffy and feytouched and dragonborn and all sorts of things ... but it is not what AD&D1 was about. [/QUOTE]

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