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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 5034497" data-attributes="member: 80487">I don't think the thief was intended to be such a generally good player choice as a fighter, cleric or magic-user, especially for frequent play. One can recruit a thief as henchman, unless one is a paladin. Then again, "should any player want to be one," a hobbit fighter/thief might be more attractive than a level-capped fighter.(Note that halflings don't get the one-level lift that dwarves and elves get in AD&D. Opportunities to exceed the old limit even with high strength are so limited that only tallfellows with an 18 on the dice start able to reach 5th. For them to reach 6th, or for stouts to reach 5th, requires somehow exceeding the racial maximum!)Given the same x.p., a thief is a level ahead of a fighter at low levels, or three ahead at high levels. That doesn't make it generally as "powerful" in any clear way -- and I don't think it any coincidence that it's the one class in which all the standard demihumans except half-orcs -- who substitute assassin -- get unlimited advancement. (Half-elves also get druid.)The basic problem is that the thief's functions tend to be Plan B.You can give a thief of any level a 100% chance to pick a lock, simply by allowing repeated attempts until success (greater expertise translating thus into greater speed). It's still preferable to open a lock with the key.A thief can climb a wall with a chance of falling and breaking his neck -- or anyone can do it more safely with proper equipment (such as rope).Why try to remove a trap, at risk of getting hurt, when you can instead set it off while clear? Why not bypass it altogether? Obviously, there are sometimes going to be significant answers to those questions -- but too often, among poor players, it's just, "Duh. I dunno."For them, the thief was created. Well, actually I think it was created for players who said, "If only we could find out that a locked chest is full of copper before we go to the trouble of hauling it back to town."You mean without removing the hinges? "Yeah, that takes time -- even more if the hinges are hidden -- and makes noise. Smashing is sometimes faster, but leaves the chest useless. And those metal chests are a real drag. Then there are the occasional locked doors and portcullises. And traps! Poisoned needles and spring blades are bad enough, but damn poison gas!"A magic-user can cast knock, and a cleric can cast find traps. "Yeah, but those are second level spells. The m-u in particular has a limited supply, and none at all before third level." The supply is even more limited in AD&D than in the older game."Right, so it would be neat if we could get a little edge in that department." If we come across three chests, and 3rd-level spell-casters can deal with only one, then about a 33% chance with some other method would be about the same ...</blockquote>

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