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<blockquote data-quote="Ariosto" data-source="post: 5035766" data-attributes="member: 80487">Right. Let's play &quot;guessing game&quot;. After all, it doesn't really matter what we're doing -- so why should we even know?&quot;Mischief moves somewhere near and I must blast it with my magic!&quot;&quot;First you are swathed head to foot in the intestines of fresh killed owls.&quot;&quot;We go to the image expander; there we will explode the ghost to the macroid dimension.&quot;&quot;Until work has reached its previous stage nympharium privileges are denied to all.&quot;&quot;I become drunk as circumstances dictate.&quot;&quot;I rolled an 18!&quot;&quot;For what?&quot;&quot;How should I know?&quot;No, it's not. It's similar to a DM who keeps secret the fact that he's &quot;fudging&quot; or &quot;railroading&quot;. Or a DM who's so stoned he has no more idea of what's going on than the players have.I can, but I won't. So, make a roll against &quot;lock picking skill&quot; or whatever. What's this got to do with 4e &quot;skill challenges&quot;?What, you think the character -- which in fact does not exist -- knows numbers on a character sheet but the player does not? [/joke] Just tell the player,&quot;Be warned that tales told have it that this being possesses powers which make him nearly undefeatable! Accounts relate that it is quite unlikely that any adventurers will ever find the chamber where the demi-lich Acererak lingers, for the passages and rooms of the Tomb are fraught with terrible traps, poison gases, and magical protections. Furthermore, the demi-lich has so well hidden his lair, that even those who avoid the pitfalls will not be likely to locate their true goal. So only large and well-prepared parties of the bravest and strongest should even consider the attempt, and if they do locate the Tomb, they must be prepared to fail.&quot;Or whatever. Again, what has this to do with 4e &quot;skill challenges&quot;?But he is a player, right? A DUNGEONS &amp; DRAGONS player? So he's not too shy to turn into a cross between Sun Tzu and Patton as soon as the DM says, &quot;Roll initiative.&quot;It's not an audition for Masterpiece Theater. I am not eager to sit through a thespian performance by someone whose fantasy is to have social skills -- any more than I want Fat Ninja Boy to demonstrate his character's martial arts technique. I just want to know what in blazes he's talking about. Is he diplomatically offering a large sum of money for a little favor, or is he diplomatically asking for a handout just because ... well, just because? It makes a difference.If a dice-roll is called for, then the circumstances are going to affect the probabilities of different outcomes.Again, what has this to do with a 4e &quot;skill challenge&quot;?I've been playing games with &quot;skill systems&quot; -- starting in my case with Traveller and RuneQuest -- over a span of 30 years. They had nothing to do with a 4e &quot;skill challenge&quot; and I want nothing to do with it.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ariosto, post: 5035766, member: 80487"] Right. Let's play "guessing game". After all, it doesn't [I]really[/I] matter what we're doing -- so why should we even know? "Mischief moves somewhere near and I must blast it with my magic!" "First you are swathed head to foot in the intestines of fresh killed owls." "We go to the image expander; there we will explode the ghost to the macroid dimension." "Until work has reached its previous stage nympharium privileges are denied to all." "I become drunk as circumstances dictate." "I rolled an 18!" "For what?" "How should [I]I[/I] know?" No, it's not. It's similar to a DM who keeps secret the fact that he's "fudging" or "railroading". Or a DM who's so stoned he has no more idea of what's going on than the players have. I [I]can[/I], but I won't. So, make a roll against "lock picking skill" or whatever. What's this got to do with 4e "skill challenges"? What, you think the character -- which in fact does not exist -- knows numbers on a character sheet but the player does not? [/joke] Just tell the player, "Be warned that tales told have it that this being possesses powers which make him nearly undefeatable! Accounts relate that it is quite unlikely that any adventurers will ever find the chamber where the demi-lich Acererak lingers, for the passages and rooms of the Tomb are fraught with terrible traps, poison gases, and magical protections. Furthermore, the demi-lich has so well hidden his lair, that even those who avoid the pitfalls will not be likely to locate their true goal. So only large and well-prepared parties of the bravest and strongest should even consider the attempt, and if they do locate the Tomb, they must be prepared to fail." Or whatever. Again, what has this to do with 4e "skill challenges"? But he [B]is[/B] a [I]player[/I], right? A DUNGEONS & DRAGONS player? So he's not too shy to turn into a cross between Sun Tzu and Patton as soon as the DM says, "Roll initiative." It's not an audition for Masterpiece Theater. I am not eager to sit through a thespian performance by someone whose fantasy is to have social skills -- any more than I want Fat Ninja Boy to demonstrate his character's martial arts technique. I just want to know what in blazes he's talking [B]about[/B]. Is he diplomatically offering a large sum of money for a little favor, or is he diplomatically asking for a handout just because ... well, just because? It makes a difference. [I]If[/I] a dice-roll is called for, then the circumstances are going to affect the probabilities of different outcomes. Again, what has this to do with a 4e "skill challenge"? I've been playing games with "skill systems" -- starting in my case with [B]Traveller[/B] and [B]RuneQuest[/B] -- over a span of 30 years. They had nothing to do with a 4e "skill challenge" and I [I]want[/I] nothing to do with it. [/QUOTE]

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