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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5061154" data-attributes="member: 22779">But, isn't "what balance looks like to the design team" the definition of "designed for balance"?  I suppose you could argue that dumping everything into the lap of the GM is designing for balance, but, to me, it's not.  It's solving the problem by passing the buck.Not that that's a bad thing.  There's nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with passing responsibility for game balance off to the GM.  That's fine.  I've got no problem with that.But, don't then turn around and pretend that the mechanics are designed for balance.  They aren't really.  They're designed around what worked at a small number of very specific tables and around some pretty specific play styles.  Whether it should be or not is, quite frankly, not the question.  ---------------On character stats.Ok, I know people are offering up annecdotes for why it's not much of a difference with stats.  But, come on, really?  Take a fighter with an 18/51 Strength (+2 to hit +3 to damage) and a 16 Con.By 3rd level, he's averaging 21 hit points.  Better than the average for a 4th level fighter and he's attacking 1 better.  A pretty clear 1 level advantage.  By 7th level, he's averaging 49 hit points, 1 shy of a TENTH level fighter, and his attacks are only 1 point of THACO less.  At least a two level advantage, and almost three.Or a cleric with an 18 wis and 16 con.  By 7th level, he's got 1 extra 4th, and 3rd level spell, and two extra 1st and 2nd levels spells.  He's averaging 42 hit points, two points better than a tenth level cleric.  The only way he's not a 9th level cleric is because he's missing a 5th level spell.Way back when this sidebar on character stats started, I posited two groups, one with no stat over 15 and the other with 1 18 and 1 16 stat.  There is a HUGE difference between these two groups.  Group B is operating at least 1 level, if not two or three above what it says on their character sheet.  Plus, group B now has access to all of the classes, including the more powerful ones like Ranger or Paladin.  Plus they have access to multiclassing quite easily.Now, how is the DM supposed to design adventures?  The random dungeon generators, and the charts for stocking the dungeons don't take any of this into consideration.  IIRC, there isn't even guidelines for how many characters there are assumed to be.All of these are elements you need to consider if you are designing for balance.  I don't believe 1e was though.  I believe that 1e placed the responsibility for balance in the DM's lap and pretty much washed its hands of it.That is not designed for balance.  Which is not to say it's poor design or badly designed or anything else.  It's just not designed with balance as a major consideration.</blockquote>

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