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Was AD&D1 designed for game balance?
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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5066321" data-attributes="member: 18280"><p>Nah, the goalposts haven't changed. If you go back to the Q thread, the problem with the assumptions Q made was that the PCs would recover the majority of treasure.</p><p></p><p>Recovery of treasure consists of two parts: 1. Locating said treasure (further subdivided into dealing with guarding creatures, dealing with traps, recognizing treasure for what it is, and, very often, determining whether it is worth carrying out based on its value vs. bulk, as well as some things I am undoubtably forgetting) and 2. Getting said treasure home (which, according to the DMG, includes dealing with any taxes, bribes, etc., as well as encumberance and monsters/characters who want a slice of the pie).</p><p></p><p>Because I was willing, for the sake of argument, to grant the first part does not imply that the goalposts have changed. It is merely to demonstrate that, even were it granted, you would still have a job ahead of you.</p><p></p><p>I am pointing out that your dismissal of one roadblock doesn't come close to fully eliminating the problem. I am not saying that your dismissal of that roadblock is in any way correct. Indeed, as I pointed out, the winners of the Origins tournament - the people who did best playing the game as it was intended to be played - found it a significant roadblock indeed!</p><p></p><p>BTW, if the DM says "You find a <em>bag of holding</em>" every time you do (or any time you do), that DM is incompetent. What a <em>portable hole</em> and multiple <em>bags of holding</em> really imply is a good chance that a <em>bag</em> will eventually be put into the <em>hole</em>, and your 10 cubic feet of treasure will be lost.</p><p></p><p>Again, if the DM doesn't use the rules, it is not the fault of the rules that he encounters problems. Your Monty Haulism was not due to the modules.</p><p></p><p>This is rather like saying that 4e sucks because the combat encounters aren't balanced, because I am not using the tools provided. It is a non-starter of an argument.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>RC</p><p></p><p></p><p>EDIT: And because Mr. Gygax was experienced enough to ignore certain rules doesn't mean that you should <strong><em>if you are not getting the same results</em></strong>. This is no different than learning to write effectively -- stick to the rules of grammar until you know them well enough to break them effectively. Jumping to "breaking the rules" because you can't be bothered to learn them first, or because James Joyce can get away with stream-of-consciousness, is not the sign of a competent writer.....or DM.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 5066321, member: 18280"] Nah, the goalposts haven't changed. If you go back to the Q thread, the problem with the assumptions Q made was that the PCs would recover the majority of treasure. Recovery of treasure consists of two parts: 1. Locating said treasure (further subdivided into dealing with guarding creatures, dealing with traps, recognizing treasure for what it is, and, very often, determining whether it is worth carrying out based on its value vs. bulk, as well as some things I am undoubtably forgetting) and 2. Getting said treasure home (which, according to the DMG, includes dealing with any taxes, bribes, etc., as well as encumberance and monsters/characters who want a slice of the pie). Because I was willing, for the sake of argument, to grant the first part does not imply that the goalposts have changed. It is merely to demonstrate that, even were it granted, you would still have a job ahead of you. I am pointing out that your dismissal of one roadblock doesn't come close to fully eliminating the problem. I am not saying that your dismissal of that roadblock is in any way correct. Indeed, as I pointed out, the winners of the Origins tournament - the people who did best playing the game as it was intended to be played - found it a significant roadblock indeed! BTW, if the DM says "You find a [I]bag of holding[/I]" every time you do (or any time you do), that DM is incompetent. What a [I]portable hole[/I] and multiple [I]bags of holding[/I] really imply is a good chance that a [I]bag[/I] will eventually be put into the [I]hole[/I], and your 10 cubic feet of treasure will be lost. Again, if the DM doesn't use the rules, it is not the fault of the rules that he encounters problems. Your Monty Haulism was not due to the modules. This is rather like saying that 4e sucks because the combat encounters aren't balanced, because I am not using the tools provided. It is a non-starter of an argument. RC EDIT: And because Mr. Gygax was experienced enough to ignore certain rules doesn't mean that you should [B][I]if you are not getting the same results[/I][/B]. This is no different than learning to write effectively -- stick to the rules of grammar until you know them well enough to break them effectively. Jumping to "breaking the rules" because you can't be bothered to learn them first, or because James Joyce can get away with stream-of-consciousness, is not the sign of a competent writer.....or DM. [/QUOTE]
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