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Was AD&D1 designed for game balance?
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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5067875" data-attributes="member: 22779"><p>The problem is, every time I bring up things FROM THE RULES that illustrate my point, they get ignored. Treasure tables that the rules specifically state will result in unbalanced games are somehow has transformed into rules that are meant for game balance. Character building mechanics that result in totally different power levels, with no baseline for comparison magically results in balanced design.</p><p></p><p>Every example I bring up, is countered by "Well in my game we did this". </p><p></p><p>I pointed to RC's completely circular logic - good players will get the treasure, good DM's will prevent good players from getting the treasure, therefore no group could have both good players and good DM's. And that gets ignored.</p><p></p><p>The fact, not opinion, FACT that there is over a MILLION gold pieces in a module gets dismissed as, "well, thirty years ago, one group playing in a tournament game didn'T get the treasure, therefore no one ever should". I mean, come on.</p><p></p><p>You guys have some very strong play assumptions that I just do not share. Nor do I think that these play assumptions - rapid character replacement, frequent poor play resulting in high training costs, deadly random encounters frequently occuring, and others - are actually as wide spread and universal as you seem to be claiming.</p><p></p><p>Look, I've made my case. There's not much else I can do here. I'm tired of goal posts on roller skates and dueling anecdotes. I do not believe 1e was designed for game balance. I believe it was designed to give you a play experience that resembled Gygax and co's table and, if you deviated from their play style, your game went kerblooie. </p><p></p><p>The more I hear you and RC talk about 1e, the more limiting it sounds. The DM MUST screw over the players and never let them have the treasure. The game MUST be competetive between the DM and players. The game MUST feature certain elements - rapid character death being one of them. </p><p></p><p>No wonder I gave up on 1e decades ago. Not my game at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5067875, member: 22779"] The problem is, every time I bring up things FROM THE RULES that illustrate my point, they get ignored. Treasure tables that the rules specifically state will result in unbalanced games are somehow has transformed into rules that are meant for game balance. Character building mechanics that result in totally different power levels, with no baseline for comparison magically results in balanced design. Every example I bring up, is countered by "Well in my game we did this". I pointed to RC's completely circular logic - good players will get the treasure, good DM's will prevent good players from getting the treasure, therefore no group could have both good players and good DM's. And that gets ignored. The fact, not opinion, FACT that there is over a MILLION gold pieces in a module gets dismissed as, "well, thirty years ago, one group playing in a tournament game didn'T get the treasure, therefore no one ever should". I mean, come on. You guys have some very strong play assumptions that I just do not share. Nor do I think that these play assumptions - rapid character replacement, frequent poor play resulting in high training costs, deadly random encounters frequently occuring, and others - are actually as wide spread and universal as you seem to be claiming. Look, I've made my case. There's not much else I can do here. I'm tired of goal posts on roller skates and dueling anecdotes. I do not believe 1e was designed for game balance. I believe it was designed to give you a play experience that resembled Gygax and co's table and, if you deviated from their play style, your game went kerblooie. The more I hear you and RC talk about 1e, the more limiting it sounds. The DM MUST screw over the players and never let them have the treasure. The game MUST be competetive between the DM and players. The game MUST feature certain elements - rapid character death being one of them. No wonder I gave up on 1e decades ago. Not my game at all. [/QUOTE]
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