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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 4758971" data-attributes="member: 48965">Case in point of what?  And what does a vancian spellcasting system have to do with what we are discussing?  D&D must compete with a growing awareness amongst gamers of various rpg's... thus it must evolve and adapt to compete with these.  While 3.5 wasn't perfect and definitely was combat focused... it was also the first edition to have a fully fleshed out skill system, as well as non-combat feats.  This was a move in the right direction, it opened D&D up to a wider realm of playstyles and made it more competitive with games utilizing more current design principles.And again, 3.5 added a more solid foundation for the game to do the dungeoncrawl as well as go beyond the dungeoncrawl... regardless of what it's marketing was based around (which was probably more in response to just how far 2e had gone in the other direction as well as how much product 2e had already produced in the other direction), which with so many OGL/d20 publishers IMO wasn't restricted to only dungeoncrawls, but whatever. Yet the designers of 4e chose to go in a different direction, they evolved combat but gave us half-developed rules for play outside of combat and a condensed skill list.  Now what really is the reason 4e couldn't have both an evolved combat system and an evolved skill system?... because it seems to me you are arguing they are mutually exclusive, when they're not.Yes because a noble is just as effective in combat as a soldier... not.  Also are you purposefully ignoring the talents, some may have combat applications but quite a few have non-combat applications as well.  You know talents like...Presence, Inspire Confidence, Coordinate, Connections, Educated, Spontaneous Skill, Wealth, Fool's Luck, Gambler, Knack, Gimmick, Master Slicer, Trace, Hyperdriven, Acute Senses, Expert Tracker, Hidden Movement, Improved Stealth, Total Concealment, Barter, Fringe Savant, Jury-Rigger, Extreme Effort, and so on (because I'm not going to list everynon-combat applicable talent, just from the corebook. And no one is claiming it has too, just add more to it.  As an example, you can have a shooter videogame that's great... and then in it's next iteration give it multi-player capability, or a story based mission mode.  These features appeal to a wider fan base but haven't changed it's main emphasis on shooting things.  The multi-player and story-based aspects can easily be ignored by those who want to... but generally makes it a more appealing game to others.</blockquote>

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