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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7696640" data-attributes="member: 4937">I missed it the last time, or I'd probably be bored with it now.I think the big problem is that the Balor wasn't faithfully translated from the 1e stats.&nbsp; If the 3e Balor had been an 8 or 10HD outsider, there would not be this problem.&nbsp; Instead they took the 8HD balor and made a 20HD version the baseline model.&nbsp; They took the 13HD pit fiend and made it 20HD.&nbsp; They took the (effectively) 17HD ancient red dragon of largest size and doubled it up to 34HD or more.&nbsp; But there was IMO little need for that save to support numbers inflation.&nbsp; It's easier to scale things up when you need to do so than it is to keep perspective.If we were playing at high paragon or low epic level, we could just double or triple the HD of the baseline balor to produce a 'Gothmog' and be done.&nbsp; Without the assumption that the Balor is a CR 20 creature, we no longer have the problem that the classes make Gandalf too powerful once he is of a level to challenge the Balrog.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7696640, member: 4937"] I missed it the last time, or I'd probably be bored with it now. I think the big problem is that the Balor wasn't faithfully translated from the 1e stats. If the 3e Balor had been an 8 or 10HD outsider, there would not be this problem. Instead they took the 8HD balor and made a 20HD version the baseline model. They took the 13HD pit fiend and made it 20HD. They took the (effectively) 17HD ancient red dragon of largest size and doubled it up to 34HD or more. But there was IMO little need for that save to support numbers inflation. It's easier to scale things up when you need to do so than it is to keep perspective. If we were playing at high paragon or low epic level, we could just double or triple the HD of the baseline balor to produce a 'Gothmog' and be done. Without the assumption that the Balor is a CR 20 creature, we no longer have the problem that the classes make Gandalf too powerful once he is of a level to challenge the Balrog. [/QUOTE]

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