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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Was Gandalf Just A 5th Level Magic User?
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<blockquote data-quote="Khisanth the Ancient" data-source="post: 7696780" data-attributes="member: 11368"><p>When the Maiar/Valar become 'fallen' they tend to become limited in their forms, which come to reflect their inner nature. Morgoth becomes trapped in his Dark Lord form after the Darkening of Valinor. Sauron loses the ability to take 'fair' deceptive forms after the Downfall of Numenor. The Balrogs become shadowy, and physical enough to be killed.</p><p></p><p>The Istari/Wizards are a bit different. They are Maiar, but their bodies seem to be created for them as part of their sending into Middle-Earth. Thus they could 'die' even without being fallen, and when Gandalf died, he had to be 'sent back' by higher authority - he couldn't just put on a new body.</p><p></p><p>I don't think there is any evidence the Dragons are Maiar, though, and the fact they seem to reproduce (there's a reference to 'Glaurung and his brood') argues against it. I think they are biological creatures corrupted and empowered by Morgoth.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think that is quite the same thing. Feanor also could never create another work to match the Silmarils, and he wasn't a Maia/Vala, so I think that's a more general rule of creating super 'magical' things in Tolkien's universe rather than having to do with the angelic powers of Maiar/Valar specifically.</p><p></p><p>If the Trees had been to Yavanna what the Ring was to Sauron, containing nearly all of her power, she would have been reduced to a helpless shadow on their destruction - which she wasn't.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Khisanth the Ancient, post: 7696780, member: 11368"] When the Maiar/Valar become 'fallen' they tend to become limited in their forms, which come to reflect their inner nature. Morgoth becomes trapped in his Dark Lord form after the Darkening of Valinor. Sauron loses the ability to take 'fair' deceptive forms after the Downfall of Numenor. The Balrogs become shadowy, and physical enough to be killed. The Istari/Wizards are a bit different. They are Maiar, but their bodies seem to be created for them as part of their sending into Middle-Earth. Thus they could 'die' even without being fallen, and when Gandalf died, he had to be 'sent back' by higher authority - he couldn't just put on a new body. I don't think there is any evidence the Dragons are Maiar, though, and the fact they seem to reproduce (there's a reference to 'Glaurung and his brood') argues against it. I think they are biological creatures corrupted and empowered by Morgoth. I don't think that is quite the same thing. Feanor also could never create another work to match the Silmarils, and he wasn't a Maia/Vala, so I think that's a more general rule of creating super 'magical' things in Tolkien's universe rather than having to do with the angelic powers of Maiar/Valar specifically. If the Trees had been to Yavanna what the Ring was to Sauron, containing nearly all of her power, she would have been reduced to a helpless shadow on their destruction - which she wasn't. [/QUOTE]
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