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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Willie the Duck" data-source="post: 9401958" data-attributes="member: 6799660">I'm more adamant than most in the 'hey guys, can we please stop trying to posture our nerd cred*?,' but even I don't think this is just** people trying to show up to win the discussion. It's just the kind of thing that people regularly mention being a nightmare, and people who didn't have all that much difficulty might feel compelled to point their lack of difficultly out.*as part of my '<a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/the-full-glorious-history-of-nutsr.684697/page-512#post-9398779" target="_blank">nerds are the worst to other nerds</a>' go-to topic**clearly that does happen, since it's the internet, but certainly not just that. That's likely the majority of players who played in that era (more on that in a second). That's because, while ThAC0 is bad, it is trivially so. You have to remember where the bonuses/penalties go, and not to double-count them, but that's true of all the models -- the ThAC0 model likely requires a small increase in the mental processing power*, but again, a trivial amount. It's not hard, just unnecessary.*at least I remember having to think in my head "okay, this situational modifier is a benefit to my character, and thus..." more than I do with bonuses and penalties in the BAB+mods or PB+mods modelsThe worst part of ThAC0, IMO, is that it is built upon the low-AC=>better model, which I think is the actual main culprit in this issue. The real cognitive load is having to attach subtextual +/-s to the  existing +/- modifiers. The cleanest example of that being +2 armor actually lowering AC. However, the one that I always had to step back and think* on was the weapon-vs-armor modifiers and was that +1 armor class adjustment to the attack roll or the AC -- and was it a +1 to the AC, or a +1 bonus to the AC (lowering it 1)?*especially back as a kid before I had any real sense why a two-handed sword would be good against plate armor (relatively speaking), but a broad sword would be bad against it.Where I think ThAC0 (and rule structures like it) had a negative impact was in what I'll call "inhibiting the lookie loos" -- the mildly interested onlooker* who might have joined (or stuck with) gaming, but had an eye-glaze or can't-be-bothered moment with ThAC0 (probably not in isolation, but in aggregate with other micro-frustrations) and just lost momentum. So while people who got over the investment threshold likely didn't struggle greatly to keep using the system, it likely is a small part of why many who otherwise might have glommed onto TTRPGs never quite got there.*such as the gamer spouse; the comic book nerd friend who was game to branch out into TTRPGs as well; or that game store customer who came in for some modelling glue and saw what you were doing and said 'that looks neat.' Overall, it is just like the fraction math for Champions/Hero System powers* or that one Traveller formula for in-system travel time** -- no, few if anyone (over a certain age & math education) who bothers playing the game is going to not be able to do it. It's more a question as to whether they should have to bother doing so, and if it adds anything to the game for them to have to do so. For game side-project activities that can be performed only by those who get personal satisfaction from stretching their advanced primary school math muscles, they are perfect. As core system game rules you need to perform to play the game, they are trivial-but-present disincentives towards more people sticking with the games.* where a level 3 blast power with specific benefits and limitations might cost 3 x 5 x (1.0+.75+.5+.25+.25+.25)/(1.0+1.75+.5) Character Points, and 3 x 5 x (1.0+.75+.5+.25+.25+.25)/10 END per use.**t=2×sqrt(d/a), IIRC.</blockquote>

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