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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Was the Rune Knight (in Tasha's) "over-nerfed"?
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<blockquote data-quote="Levistus's_Leviathan" data-source="post: 8406903" data-attributes="member: 7023887"><p>So? That's still reducing the amount of damage that they take by a lot, especially because it regenerates every round, without any actions required by you to take on subsequent turns to maintain, or even concentration. </p><p></p><p>Which is still good. </p><p></p><p>But this doesn't take spell slots, regains on a short rest, has a ton more benefits <em>and </em>it stacks with Aid and similar buffs. </p><p></p><p>From my experiences debating with you on similar topics of balance before, we have very different definitions of what "balanced" is. I've had a twilight cleric in my campaign, and I found that it was more powerful than any ever cleric that's ever been at our table, and was the most powerful character at the table by far (the other characters were an Oath of the Ancients Paladin and a Tasha's Beastmaster Ranger with a Beast of the Land). Neither of the two other characters were underpowered, they were both really powerful, but the Twilight Cleric blew them both out the water in terms of sustainable damage, buffing, and utility. </p><p></p><p>Hang on a minute, because there's quite a few flaws with your argument here. </p><p></p><p>First off, <em>that's at 11th level</em>. Most campaigns barely reach that level and end soon after they get that high. Twilight Cleric gets Twilight Sanctuary <em>at level 2</em>. You're comparing apples and oranges here. </p><p></p><p>Secondly, Fey Reinforcements takes a 3rd-level spell slot to use more than once each long rest, which you only have 3 of at that level, which means you can, at maximum if you only use your 3rd-level spell slots for this purpose, cast non-concentration Summon Fey 4 times a day. Twilight Cleric gets Twilight Sanctuary at level 2 and gets 2 uses per short rest of it at level 6, <em>and it doesn't take spell slots</em>. </p><p></p><p>Third, fey summoned by Summon Fey can be killed much more easily than a Twilight Cleric can be. </p><p></p><p>Fourth, it takes 4 rounds to spam Summon Fey to get all uses of it out at once (and this is taking all of your 3rd-level spell slots for the day), when Twilight Sanctuary only takes one action to activate. A typical combat only lasts 3-5 rounds, so while the Fey Wanderer is spending their time Pokemon-ing as much as possible, the Twilight Cleric will be casting Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians, healing spells, and so on. A Twilight Cleric can get much more accomplished in the four rounds that it takes the Fey Wanderer to reach their full potential than the Fey Wanderer will. </p><p></p><p>Fifth, you're completely ignoring that the Twilight Cleric has more features than just Twilight Sanctuary. They'll also be using Divine Strike, their flight, their advantage on initiative feature, their domain spells, and possibly even their Divine Intervention, while the Feywander that chooses to just spam Summon Fey will be doing that and only that during combat. Even if the Fey Wanderer at level 11 can kind-of keep up buff-wise with the Twilight Cleric through the Fey Reinforcement feature, the Twilight Cleric will be overall more effective in the game because they won't be solely focusing on combat.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Levistus's_Leviathan, post: 8406903, member: 7023887"] So? That's still reducing the amount of damage that they take by a lot, especially because it regenerates every round, without any actions required by you to take on subsequent turns to maintain, or even concentration. Which is still good. But this doesn't take spell slots, regains on a short rest, has a ton more benefits [I]and [/I]it stacks with Aid and similar buffs. From my experiences debating with you on similar topics of balance before, we have very different definitions of what "balanced" is. I've had a twilight cleric in my campaign, and I found that it was more powerful than any ever cleric that's ever been at our table, and was the most powerful character at the table by far (the other characters were an Oath of the Ancients Paladin and a Tasha's Beastmaster Ranger with a Beast of the Land). Neither of the two other characters were underpowered, they were both really powerful, but the Twilight Cleric blew them both out the water in terms of sustainable damage, buffing, and utility. Hang on a minute, because there's quite a few flaws with your argument here. First off, [I]that's at 11th level[/I]. Most campaigns barely reach that level and end soon after they get that high. Twilight Cleric gets Twilight Sanctuary [I]at level 2[/I]. You're comparing apples and oranges here. Secondly, Fey Reinforcements takes a 3rd-level spell slot to use more than once each long rest, which you only have 3 of at that level, which means you can, at maximum if you only use your 3rd-level spell slots for this purpose, cast non-concentration Summon Fey 4 times a day. Twilight Cleric gets Twilight Sanctuary at level 2 and gets 2 uses per short rest of it at level 6, [I]and it doesn't take spell slots[/I]. Third, fey summoned by Summon Fey can be killed much more easily than a Twilight Cleric can be. Fourth, it takes 4 rounds to spam Summon Fey to get all uses of it out at once (and this is taking all of your 3rd-level spell slots for the day), when Twilight Sanctuary only takes one action to activate. A typical combat only lasts 3-5 rounds, so while the Fey Wanderer is spending their time Pokemon-ing as much as possible, the Twilight Cleric will be casting Spiritual Weapon, Spirit Guardians, healing spells, and so on. A Twilight Cleric can get much more accomplished in the four rounds that it takes the Fey Wanderer to reach their full potential than the Fey Wanderer will. Fifth, you're completely ignoring that the Twilight Cleric has more features than just Twilight Sanctuary. They'll also be using Divine Strike, their flight, their advantage on initiative feature, their domain spells, and possibly even their Divine Intervention, while the Feywander that chooses to just spam Summon Fey will be doing that and only that during combat. Even if the Fey Wanderer at level 11 can kind-of keep up buff-wise with the Twilight Cleric through the Fey Reinforcement feature, the Twilight Cleric will be overall more effective in the game because they won't be solely focusing on combat. [/QUOTE]
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Was the Rune Knight (in Tasha's) "over-nerfed"?
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