Water breathing

[dcollins]

1e and 2e had a spell called Airy Water. A 5th level spell that created a bubble around the caster.

This spell, if IRC, allowed spellcasters to cast underwater.

Otherwise I don't believe you could, unless you were an underwater race.

No. AD&D 1st Ed. also had no general limitations on casting spells underwater. There were certain spells whose effect did not work underwater unless they were within the area of an airy water spell.

With regard to the "touch underwater" issue, touch spells are discharged if you touch a creature or object. Water does not count as an object.

 

[green slime]

Originally clarified by dcollins


No. AD&D 1st Ed. also had no general limitations on casting spells underwater. There were certain spells whose effect did not work underwater unless they were within the area of an airy water spell.

Thanks for that clarification.

Postulated by dcollins

With regard to the "touch underwater" issue, touch spells are discharged if you touch a creature or object. Water does not count as an object.

Where is it stated that water is not an object in this circumstance?Is it the actual fact that it is a liquid? or is it the water? Would a chunk of Ice trigger the discharge? Would immersion in an acid bath?

Personally I'd have ruled it according to the act of feeling. In general, one does not feel the air around one. But putting your hand in a glass of water, an ocean, or a bucket of acid will certainly inform you that your hand is at the very least "wet". But maybe I'm just being difficult.

 

[RangerWickett]

Whether it works should depend on how cinematic your campaign is. In general, I think touch spells should not be read so literally that, if it's raining, your spell automatically discharges. I'd say it needs to be a solid object, and that it will only trigger otherwise if the spell can actually target liquids or gasses. Otherwise, the spell doesn't recognize the water as a legitimate target, and it doesn't fire.

But the main thing is that you should have rules that fit your playing style.

If your game's harsh and dangerous, then no, you'd need silent spell, still spell, or underwater spell to cast spells underwater, period. Underwater races can cast underwater just fine, but they suffer penalties when in air. Even then, you might rule that certain spell components are ruined if they get wet. If this were a normal D&D game, I'd accuse you of being a punk, but if the game's tone is one of low fantasy, then this would be appropriate.

If your game is standard D&D cinematic, then you normally would need to use those feats, but if you have a water-breathing spell you should be able to use verbal components normally; freedom of movement would let you use somatic components normally.

If your game is high fantasy, or just cinematic, you don't need to worry about somatic components underwater; they work fine. For verbal components, you can cast fine if you have water breathing, and even if you don't, you can make a Concentration check (DC 15 + spell level) to cast a standard action spell, or (DC 25 + spell level) to cast a full-round action spell underwater, as long as you have some air in your lungs. However, you then begin to drown as if you've used up your normal full complement of rounds.

If you've got a really high-fantasy, highly-cinematic game, unless the badguys have specifically captured you and bound you, you can cast whatever you want, no worries.

What type of game are you playing?

 

[Eristophenes]

Let's say that my campaign is medium magic with a little dark aspect... I don't like cinematics or high magic, so the problem is quite interesting for me.

I don't think that touching the water would dischrge spell... On the other hand touching a water elemental would... The longer I think about this problem, more questions I have

If your game's harsh and dangerous, then no, you'd need silent spell, still spell, or underwater spell to cast spells underwater, period. Underwater races can cast underwater just fine, but they suffer penalties when in air. Even then, you might rule that certain spell components are ruined if they get wet.

I think that in my case that would be the best solution anyway...

Regards

 

[green slime]

Whether it works should depend on how cinematic your campaign is. In general, I think touch spells should not be read so literally that, if it's raining, your spell automatically discharges. I'd say it needs to be a solid object, and that it will only trigger otherwise if the spell can actually target liquids or gasses. Otherwise, the spell doesn't recognize the water as a legitimate target, and it doesn't fire.

Interesting comments RangerWickett.

I wouldn't have a rainshower discharge the spell.

I would like to point out, however, that I do believe the rules point out that if you are "holding a charge", that touching something other than your intended target discharges the spell, whether it is a legitmate target or not.

So this disqualifies the requirement for the touched object to be a legitmate target. This in order to prevent players cast harm, then carrying a torch, shield, or two-handed weapon in that hand.

Thusly, you must ask yourself, what is of sufficient substance to discharge the spell? The line I decided to draw was at liquids; although I would allow a character to try to discharge on a gaseous form as well. But I can understand that some may feel that the line should be drawn at solids, allowing water breathing creatures to cast stoneshape unhindered underwater.

 

[dcollins]

Where is it stated that water is not an object in this circumstance?Is it the actual fact that it is a liquid? or is it the water? Would a chunk of Ice trigger the discharge? Would immersion in an acid bath?

Let's see... from the SRD, the definition of a touch-range spell:

Touch: The character must touch a creature or object to affect it.

From the section on damaging objects:

Each object has hardness...

The table which specifies object hardness and hit points does not include "water", and it would not make sense for water to have hardness or hit points. However, the same table does include substances like paper, rope, glass, and ice (several of which have a hardness of zero). There are probably other clues in the rules that indicate that water is not an object.

Does ice count? Yes, it's in the table of substances (quote #2). Does acid? No, because it has no hardness (quote #2). Does a water elemental? Yes, because it's a creature (quote #1). Does a person in gaseous form? Yes, it too is a creature (quote #1).