NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 6825937" data-attributes="member: 37579">Where was this rule for 3e? I don't even recall one in Unearthed Arcana. But, more relevantly, was it in the core rulebooks? Because when comparing 5e to other game systems one has to remember 5th Edition only has the core rulebooks and one campaign setting/splatbook hybrid. So it's unfair to compare the rule options for an entire edition published over a half-dozen years with a dozen sourcebooks with 5e after 18 months and a single extra product. Very true. However, the game was "balanced" around the assumption of party with a fighter, rogue, cleric, and wizard. That was the baseline. So while there were not formal named roles, magic was assumed.Whether or not an experienced party could kludge together a functional party despite the absence of a controller is irrelevant. It was still an assumption of the game. Oh, and having run for a group lacking a controller, it definitely bit them in the ass a few times. Groups of minions could rip them apart without a ranged AoE option.I imagine a DM could design adventures specifically to avoid situations where a controller would be handy. But that, in essence, is homebrewing and customizing the system. You can do the exact same thing to work around the absence or a healer or a tank in a party.Again, what page of the PHB or DMG are inherent bonuses on?And while the math still works, characters are underpowered as they lose the secondary bonuses of magic item, and milestones have significantly less potency. It worked but it certainly wasn't perfect.3e doesn't have subclasses, so only the rogue, barbarian, and fighter are nonmagical and there's not a lot of diversity there. All three are also pretty focused on DPR. Heck, the only unique thing the 3e (and 2e) fighter gets is Weapon Specialization, which is pure damage.This also comes down to how you define the barbarian's rage and its powers. While (Ex) by default it's pretty darn magical, especially in 4e/5e. (Comparing the 5e fighter to past fighters has actually convinced me that the class is significantly more flexible than it's ever been before. While it's never going to be the best support character or controller, it will do in a pinch and is certainly better than nothing.)So you're complaining about 5e not excelling at a play style every past edition pretty much also ignored. A play style that D&D has never been great at replicatingMore than any other edition, 5e is in a good place for no-magic or low magic campaigns, as that's workable with just the core rules, as magic items are not assumed and there's variety in the non-magical classes. You can have an entire party of non-magical classes, each with their own unique abilities. Much better than you could with just the PHB and a Forgotten Realms Player's Guide in either 3.5e or 4e. Heck, with the options in SCAG you can have eight or nine very different PCs without even getting into differentiation by races, backgrounds, weapons, or feats. Throw in the Unearthed Arcana spell-less ranger and you can get that up to 11. Two entire five-man parties!For maximum no-magic you still requires some additional content and options to make a no-magic game, but then so did every other prior edition. latter).</blockquote>

Verification