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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 6826416" data-attributes="member: 37579">The best contribution the wizard can make is to deal AoE damage. Any time they could deal AoE damage but are not it's a waste of their spell slot.Sure, they could make the rogue invisible or the warlock fly, but since classes do close to the same damage, it's just as efficient for them to nuke themselves. After all, all of the wizard's class features are related to regaining spell slots so they can nuke more. After all, the best condition to impose upon a creature is "dead" and even spells like illusions deal damage now. The wizard is a damage dealer. A few subclasses might have non-DPR abilities, but those are either to keep you alive while you blast more. That's the same damn argument you're making. And it's just as silly with the fighter as with the wizard.I didn't want to get into this as someone would appear and call out "edition warring!" but I really didn't like how inherent bonuses worked in 4e. It was all or nothing. You either used them and had no magic items or you didn't. Because the two didn't stack. I wanted a lower magic campaign and hated having to give out two or three magic items each session and a +2 item at second level. And to have everyone swap magic items every 5 levels. And tracking who had how many magical items and such. So, bonuses. But that meant that I had no reason to give out magic items since they didn't actually make you better at hitting. And since the players relied on the Character Builder, there was no easy way to adjust. The 4e inherent bonus system didn't do what I wanted/needed it to. And trusting official classes would be much more appealing, if WotC hadn't released such stinkers in UA and a couple pretty broken/nerfed options in the PHB. You have to be cautious despite the source, but a 3PP class can work pretty darn well. Because they know they'll be judged harder that official content, many 3PP work harder at balance and spend longer on content than an official writer would who's just trying to hit their word count that month.What do you do the first 6 levels of the game? What do you do with enemies that are 4 or more squares away? While my 4e play experience is hazy, the times when the party needed a minion sweeper wouldn't have been much helped by that fighter.It fulfills the forced movement, but that's akin to a defender marking a creature without the ability to deal damage and deter attacks or the high AC/hp to actually tank. It does half the job.</blockquote>

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