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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ferghis" data-source="post: 6036115" data-attributes="member: 40483">As pemerton notes, I think this is a case of table expectations, and I think my group was in a similar mental place. Just about. Several party members had failed three death saves: we (the players) wanted to keep things going because one of us managed to roll above 19 on their death save, get lucky on a bluff check, and all that was left was the main bad guy at very low HP and one minion. If he managed to take out the BBG, he might have survived another round against the minion, and we would be victorious (in quite a Phyrric manner). He missed, and the DM generously drew the curtains and ended the session there. Like your case, we're discussing who wants to play what, and how to pick up the pieces. But unlike you, there was no ace up our sleve. The "strange helper" is a tactic I've seen many DMs use successfully, and I think it is a good one.We were suprisingly okay with it. For one, we knew it was a tough fight to walk into. For another, the two players whose PCs first died were particularly fine with it for their own reasons. That, I think, set the tone for the other players' reactions. Finally, I think I may have the player most attached to the character, and was/am playing a warforged, so I never feared a technical death. I was more afraid that the campaign might end, and it appears that it might not (although discussions are ongoing).I've read this often, and it sounds very plausible, although I haven't run into it these situations myself.I've always wondered if that was cheating: using 4e design math to figure out monster capabilities. If you know the numbers (I only know some of them) and role, it's pretty easy to derive all the other numbers from the single one you might learn. I avoid doing this, but I think knowing that we were facing an elite of level+5 would have given us pause in continuing the assault - or might have at least induced us to propose a ceasefire, since both sides had taken significant losses.</blockquote>

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