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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrozenNorth" data-source="post: 9151046" data-attributes="member: 7020832">Let’s dig into the option “reduce impact of class and increase impact of subclass” to solve the fighter’s problems.What fighter class level features would need to be replaced to give them more powerful sub-classes?Well, the level 1-5 features can probably be left alone for a couple of reasons.  First, none of them is particularly supernatural, so they can appeal to players regardless of archetype they prefer.  Second, at low levels, most classes feel pretty balanced.  Spellcasters can’t waste spells, Bard and Rogue skills are still within BA, and fighters’ weaknesses in the social and exploration pillar are less apparent.Ok, what about the 6+ features:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">level 6: extra ASI.  Seems fair to ditch this for a more powerful subclass;</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">level 9: Indomitable 1.  This has basically no impact on a fighter’s overall power: leave it;</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">level 11: extra attack.  Fair enough.  If fighters are going to be stronger out of combat, seems fair they should give up some combat prowess.  Also, this makes sense as both rangers’ and paladins’ increase in damage at 11 is tied to their subclass.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">level 13: Indomitable 2.  See level 9.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">level 14: second extra ASI.  See level 6.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">level 17: Action Surge * 2; Indomitable * 3.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">level 20: Attacks * 4.  This is a capstone, so I don’t see a good reason to change it.</li> </ul>But going through the fighter levels points to a second big weakness of the fighter.  The base class is boring.  You are doing the same thing at level 17, just with more attacks than you are doing at level 5.One of my players played a fighter to level 11.  At the end of the game, I could see that he was dissatisfied with the class even in combat.  Every round of combat was booming blade, then attacks until the creature was dead (and occasional uses of Action Surge).All the other classes had more interesting stuff to do in combat and more dials to tweak.</blockquote>

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