Ways to lessen race hate/indifference?

[CruelSummerLord]

In looking at the recent threads on elfhate and gnomehate, I began wondering about steps that could be taken to reduce the hate and/or indifference players could have for such races, and make them more likable and/or playable. Some of it could be fluff, some of it could be crunch, but all such ideas are welcome in this thread.

Some of mine, which I've adapted for my own version of Greyhawk:

Dwarves: They're powerful warriors and expert blacksmiths, with a very long and rich legacy in the world of Oerth, but their greed and long memories have led them into countless bloody conflicts over the centuries. Indeed, in some ways the most vicious fighting is not between dwarf and orc, but between dwarf and dwarf. When there is gold and silver at stake, brother will murder brother and they will fight to the death for the sake of the richest mining claim.

Elves: Indeed, the elven race is possessed of tremendous magical power, wisdom and understanding...but why, then, has that never translated into great personal power over the world? For all their supposed knowledge and power, elves have always existed within humanity's shadow, their successes fewer, their place in the world weaker, their great heroes and kingdoms lesser in number? Perhaps humans do not have the great skills of elves in certain specialized areas...but the human race has used its gifts to succeed in ways the divided, feuding elven peoples can only dream of.

Gnomes: Gnomes are the masters of technology and engineering. Unlike the bumbling idiots that are tinker gnomes, the gnomes of the Oerth are clever and skilled in their use of technology, overcoming the lack of steam power and fossil fuels in their innovation and knowledge. Gnomes are also, in a sense, creatures of contrast: capable of great mirth and fun, but also terrible violence when they are threatened; fascinated both by the mysteries of illusions and the hard realities of technology and mining; lovers both of gems and jewels, and also of green nature and fields. Gnomes as a race have far more to them than the simplified perceptions of many humans...

Halflings: Halflings generally lack physical strength and power, but they compensate by virtue of their speed, craftiness and dexterity. Halflings are creatures of hidden prowess and untapped potential-while many halflings would enjoy nothing more than to live peaceful, retired lives, they are capable of great intelligence and cunning when their homes are threatened, surviving more by speed and cunning than direct force of arms. A halfling in danger will use his sword if he must, but he is more likely to find a creative solution to the problem. In such cases, halflings are capable of demonstrating tremendous initiative and boldness if they absolutely must, to defend themselves and those things that they care for, and indeed this streak of resourcefulness will spur on many halflings to follow paths of adventure. They may appear as bucolic farmers, and many are indeed such, but their hidden talents are always in the background...

--------------------------------------------------------

All of the above is pure fluff, of course, but it plays with a lot of the racial stereotypes, either developing them with fresh spins, deconstructing them (the elves of Oerth have never had a Golden Age, or even a Silver Age!) and working them into the background of the setting. Similar traits can be worked out for other races like tieflings or dragonborn, if you're inclined...and I admittedly am not.

What other ideas, whether fluff or crunch, could be used to make them more interesting and/or likable?

 

[DrunkonDuty]

Hey CSL.

I like your spins on the archetypes. Especially the Dwarves. I see the hand of Abbathor at work there...

But as to the meta-game question of reducing indifference/dislike for various DnD races: why bother? I mean seriously: is it important? It is just a game and some people will play with some races, others will play with others. Also, it isn't going to happen. There are good reasons for players not liking/being indifferent towards some of the races on offer.

Let's start with the number of fantasy races out there. There's LOADS. Many more than can ever be included in one game. Each one is designed by someone to have certain appeals. But what is appealing to one designer is not necessarily appealing to all players. And why should it be? How CAN it be? So all DND races are going to get a dose of indifference from someone, somewhere. (My personal response to Dragonborn is 'meh.' They just don't do it for me. Although they seem to changing slowly into monotremes and that in itself is fascinating. But I digress.) And some races are going to be so bland that they are going to be over shadowed by more interesting ones. This is a marketing design/issue. Gnomes fall in here I'm afraid.

Another, and from what I can tell from reading the threads, from my personal experience and from anecdotal evidence from friends, fairly commmon problem is the way in which races can be played by the people to whom they appeal. I shall call this phenomenon 'Kenderising' for it's most infamous and annoying expression but in all honesty all DND races, by their nature, are given to sterotyping.

Kenderising is the act of taking one or 2 of a fantasy race's (designed) features and playing them up to the point of being really, really xxxxxxx annoying. All gamers have met people who do this. EG: If it's a kender being played they steal stuff from everyone in sight: other party members, total strangers, powerful lords who can make the PCs lives hell (or very short) and then whine when their actions have a negative impact on themselves. Something along the line of: 'Why are you being mean to me? I'm just playing my character.' And some DND races and some DND players are much more given to this than others. There seems to be a correlation between whiny players and irritating characters.

Now of course it's logically wrong for people to generalise from a few bad experiences and hate all Kender because of them. And in the real world it would be morally wrong too. But DND aint the real world. You've got to keep in mind that the races and classes stand in for particular ideas about the game. By banning Kender from a game a group effectively says: we aint having any of THAT nonsense in our group thanks.

Now you might have noticed that my extended example refers to Kender throughout. That's because I really, really, really hate Kender. And that's because every time I've seen them played they have been played exactly the way I've described above. Some DND races just attract MORE Kenderising because of the way they've been designed in the first place. Their characteristics are such that they encourage annoying play styles. Kender are the worst offenders, say thanks to Tasslehoff Burrfoot for that.

Another factor that adds to DND race hate is forum threads that re-hash the argument. Nothing like a good interweb argument to get people all hot and bothered over something they would not normally even think about.

Wow, reading back over this: I really hate Kender. In fact I have gone and gotten all hot and bothered over something that I never normally think about.

Finally, just to give a bit of perspective on where I'm coming from as a DND player:
I like to play Humans, Dwarves and Elves almost exclusively. I think this is because the other races are either nerfed by the mechanical aspects of the game or are just plain bland. (Gnomes: I'm looking at you.) Of course in earlier editions of the game humans were the hands down winners on both bland/nerfed and I never played them back then.

cheers,
Glen

 

[CruelSummerLord]

Let's start with the number of fantasy races out there. There's LOADS. Many more than can ever be included in one game. Each one is designed by someone to have certain appeals. But what is appealing to one designer is not necessarily appealing to all players. And why should it be? How CAN it be? So all DND races are going to get a dose of indifference from someone, somewhere. (My personal response to Dragonborn is 'meh.' They just don't do it for me. Although they seem to changing slowly into monotremes and that in itself is fascinating. But I digress.) And some races are going to be so bland that they are going to be over shadowed by more interesting ones. This is a marketing design/issue. Gnomes fall in here I'm afraid.

Another, and from what I can tell from reading the threads, from my personal experience and from anecdotal evidence from friends, fairly commmon problem is the way in which races can be played by the people to whom they appeal. I shall call this phenomenon 'Kenderising' for it's most infamous and annoying expression but in all honesty all DND races, by their nature, are given to sterotyping.

Kenderising is the act of taking one or 2 of a fantasy race's (designed) features and playing them up to the point of being really, really xxxxxxx annoying. All gamers have met people who do this. EG: If it's a kender being played they steal stuff from everyone in sight: other party members, total strangers, powerful lords who can make the PCs lives hell (or very short) and then whine when their actions have a negative impact on themselves. Something along the line of: 'Why are you being mean to me? I'm just playing my character.' And some DND races and some DND players are much more given to this than others. There seems to be a correlation between whiny players and irritating characters.
cheers,

Glen

On the other hand, this could make for an interesting role-playing challenge, couldn't it? Play a race most other players hate, and role-play it in a way that doesn't get under their skin.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that you and I are playing in a DL War of the Lance campaign, and I play as Tasslehoff. Tas doesn't get into too much combat; what he does instead is use his own skills and talents in creative ways. Sure, he's an absolute pain in the neck, but he's a pain in the neck not to the other players, but to the BBEG and his minions...

-Like, say in Pax Tharkas he was to free Sestun and rally the other gully dwarves to the Heroes' cause, with Tas befriending Sestun enough for the gully dwarves to reveal the hidden gate release mechanism, sealing it behind as the rest of the Heroes rescue the prisoners, and leaving Verminaard's armies trapped behind the gates, forcing them to spend extra time getting around the gates;

-Using a judicious use of hiding, taunting, and ventriloquism to enrage the remorhaz beneath Icewall Castle and sending it charging into Sleet's egg chambers, which distracts the white dragon long enough for the Heroes to make their escape;

-Sneaking into the chamber of Wyrllish and Harliel as the rest of the Companions attack, using his ventriloquism to taunt the evil wizard and preventing him from using his deadliest spells;

-Exploring the High Clerist Tower, in the process freeing a number of phantom Knights from their bondage and allowing them to join the Knights on the battlefield, while also coming up with a Dragon Orb, knowledge of how to use the dragontraps, and even a chart of Kitiara's battleplan, that a kingfisher had taken as part of its nesting;

-Poking around in Ariakas' palace in Sanction as the good dragons attack to reclaim their eggs, in the process emerging with a large collection of sensitive papers, maps, and other things that Laurana and the other leaders of the Solamnian war effort just happen to find so very useful in planning their counterattacks against the Dragonarmies;

...you know, things that kender tend to do-be an absolute pain in the you-know-where, stealing things, make snide comments, all that, only Tasslehoff as I'd play him would do it to the villains, not fellow players or important NPCs whose help the players need.

Would that work to reducing race hate, at least to a certain extent?