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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EOL" data-source="post: 105118" data-attributes="member: 823">Re: Re: Ways you can Abuse a ShifterWell to begin with the shifter the shifter would have to be level 48 before he could pull that one off, you'd think he would have learned not to pull bone-headed stunts by then. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />But with some reasonable saving throw type limitations I don't see anything wrong with having an ability with the potential to kill a creature.  Everyone else is getting their death attack spells by the time a shifter could pull anything like this off and with the shifter giving all that up I don't see where under very limited circumstance they couldn't pull off something like killing the creature from the inside.Just to show you how we've dealt with it I will include the house rule we came up with for that situation.  There are a lot of other house rules most of which have seriously limited the power of the shifter so keep that in mind as you read this one:Should the shifter ever find themselves inside a creature (this could most easily happen through a Swallow Whole ability) the shifter can use his shifting ability to cause damage, assuming he can take the shape of something with a size at least one below that of the creature who swallowed him (if swallowed by a collosal creature the shifter would have to be able to assume a Gargantuan shape in order to have any chance of doing damage).  In order to cause damage oppossed fortitude saves are made.  For every point by which the higher save exceeds the lower the person with the lower save takes 2d6 points of damage up to a maximum of the shifter’s class level.As you can see it's just as easy for the shifter to kill himself unless he has a substantially higher hit point total or fort save.Shape-changing starts out as a spell like ability and becomes a supernatural ability at Shifter level 6.Ohhh! that's one I hadn't thought of.  Though I had considered that the whole animated object if given a carte blanche could get very nasty.  The shifter could disguise himself as anything in a room, a Gargantuan Tapestry, or a large couch.  Talk about your perfect assassin.  Of course once they gain the ability to turn themselves into a mimic they can do much the same.I think it's been generally agreed that with any ability which is sort of "procreative" for example egg implantation by a Slaad or Spider Eater, or the pudding split, that the shifter loses control of the split off form, so yeah maybe the pudding does split, but that just means that the shifter is stuck in a room full of black puddings he has no control over.  Or yeah the Slaad does hatch, but all you've done is create an army of slaads who will probably destroy you.  It's also just fairly simple to rule 0 the whole idea of shifter spawning.....</blockquote>

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