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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EOL" data-source="post: 105596" data-attributes="member: 823">Re: Shifter nonsenseI think in general you're mostly right however when you give a character the ability to change into and equip any monster there are sooooo many monsters that if you just make it something of a Carte Blanche then there are bound to be some loop holes.  One example:In the New and Improved List of ECL's(tm)<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> the roper is list as ECL 18 no one who's encountered one disagrees (check the 500+ posts on that subject and see if the Roper ever comes up) A shifter can turn into one at level 10 (class lvl 5), ALL of the ropers abilities are Extraordinary.  So what's the difference between a level 10 Shifter who chooses to be a Roper most of the time and a person starting in a level 18 campaign who wants to be a Roper?  Only the fact that the shifter is more flexible and got there 8 levels earlier.Even neglecting (the somewhat silly, but revealing) argument of a PC Roper, I think at 10th level being able to turn into something with SR 28, 6 attacks a round each doing 2d8 Str damage(DC 18 Fort save), is concievably abusive.</blockquote>