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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 5729403" data-attributes="member: 2205">Because I think that in most campaigns, monsters are monsters and the sole reason they exist is to be fought by PCs.Yeah, OK, that's bizarre.  I'm not becoming a roper.  Ropers don't exist.  This moralizing about D&D and character actions is removed from reality.  Is Mario Puzo an evil person because he wrote about the Godfather?  Is George Lucas evil because his main character ended up being Darth Vader?If you're serious about that comment, I think you need to step back a bit and remind yourself that this is just a game, these characters are just fictional people, and that ropers and goblins don't really exist."Why" all the "quotation marks" in that sentence?  I'm missing what you're trying to convey, I think.If so, your comments here seem to point to the opposite situation.  Where your monsters are just regular old concerned parents trying to make a living, and with a few minutes of conversation, they can be easily understood because they have perfectly human motivations, hopes and dreams after all.Yeah, right.  Like I said, you asked; I answered.  My group and I are pretty well in synch (with possibly one or two exceptions.)Again; are the quotes supposed to mean something in particular?  Usually that implies something if you put it in quotes, like you question whether or not that label is really applicable, even though you're using it anyway.  Not trying to be Mr. Grammer Nazi, just trying to understand if I'm missing something.I'd say yes, we probably do come from a very different place.  Any game where the expectation is that the PCs are all heroic do-gooders is probably not where I am anymore.  I've been seduced by the rising popularity of grim and gritter dark fantasy, I guess.High fantasy doesn't mean holding hands and being shiny... it means good vs evil in a very tangible way, though, with the main characters definitely being good.  It means The Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter and Narnia instead of Glen Cook, Douglas Hulick, and guys like that.Not harsh, but certainly a bit defensive.  I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, I'm just having a discussion about a topic that interests me.  I'm interested in games and gamers who insist on a heroic paradigm for their game, because it's very different than mine, and it's one that in fact I find I enjoy much less over time.  Maybe I'm just tired of it.I meant that straight.  I've been a native English speaker for about forty years now, and monster has been one of my favorite words as long as I can remember.  If you're telling me that my conception of what a monster is not correct, or atypical, or something like that, I have to vehemently disagree.  What do you mean by go with ENWorld?  From Wiktionary, since it's easy to access by popping open another tab: the first definition is "a terrifying and dangerous wild or fictional creature."  That's what I mean by monster.  It's not meant to be entreated with.  It doesn't need our sympathy, support or anything.  They exist for two reasons: 1) to threaten the PCs and other empathetic NPCs, and 2) to be confronted and most likely fought and killed by the PCs.That would imply we've been fighting.  I've just been talking about a subject that I think is interesting.  :shrug:</blockquote>

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