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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kinematics" data-source="post: 9012745" data-attributes="member: 6932123">So I watched Treantmonk's analysis of the playtest barbarian today, and while he made some good points on the class features, I thought his damage comparison was a bit lacking.So I put together some comparison numbers myself. I used a +1 weapon because the comparison is done at level 13, and I felt there ought to be at least that much by that level. It also raises accuracy from 60% to 65%. As such, it's not directly comparable to Treantmonk's results, but it should be fine for the purposes of what I'm doing here.I'll start with a PHB barbarian. I'm not using Variant Human, so no free feat at 1st level. He gets a choice of Polearm Master or Great Weapon Master at level 4, and then uses the level 8 and 12 ASIs to boost Strength to 20.[spoiler="PHB Barbarian"][code]Halberd +1 (old)  Acc: 65% acc, 5% crit  Reckless: 87.75% acc, 9.75% crit  GWM: 40% acc / 64% acc  Choice of PAM or GWM  Att: 5.5 (base) + 1 (weapon) + 5 (str) + 3 (rage) = 14.5 * 65% = 9.425 + 5% * 5.5 * 2 = 9.975  Reckless: 14.5 * 87.75% = 12.72375 + 9.75% * 5.5 * 2 = 13.80  PAM Att: 2.5 (base) + 1 (weapon) + 5 (str) + 3 (rage) = 11.5 * 65% = 7.475 + 5% * 2.5 * 2 = 7.725  Reckless PAM: 11.5 * 87.75% = 10.09125 + 9.75% * 2.5 * 2 = 10.58  GWM Att: 5.5 (base) + 1 (weapon) + 5 (str) + 3 (rage) + 10 (GWM) = 24.5 * 40% = 9.8 + 5% * 5.5 * 2 = 10.35  Reckless GWM: 24.5 * 64% = 15.68 + 9.75% * 5.5 * 2 = 16.75  Frenzy: 5.5 (base) + 1 (weapon) + 5 (str) + 3 (rage) = 14.5 * 65% = 9.425 + 5% * 5.5 * 2 = 9.975  Reckless Frenzy GWM: 24.5 * 64% = 15.68 + 9.75% * 5.5 * 2 = 16.75  GWM Bonus: 5.5 (base) + 1 (weapon) + 5 (str) + 3 (rage) = 14.5 * 65% = 9.425 + 5% * 5.5 * 2 = 9.975  Reckless GWM Bonus: 24.5 * 64% = 15.68 + 9.75% * 5.5 * 2 = 16.75  PAM, plain: Att + Att + PAM = 9.975 + 9.975 + 7.725 = 27.675  PAM, reckless: Reckless + Reckless + Reckless PAM = 13.80 + 13.80 + 10.58 = 38.18  GWM, plain: GWM Att + GWM Att + 9.75% (crit trigger) * GWM Bonus = 10.35 + 10.35 + 0.9725625 = 21.67  GWM, reckless: Reckless GWM + Reckless GWM + 18.55% (crit trigger) * Reckless GWM Bonus = 16.75 + 16.75 + 3.11 = 36.61  GWM, frenzy: Reckless GWM + Reckless GWM + Reckless Frenzy GWM = 16.75 + 16.75 + 16.75 = 50.25[/code][/spoiler]PAM is slightly better than GWM unless you can use Frenzy, in which case GWM is far better.  GWM would probably also use a d12 or 2d6 weapon for slightly more base damage, in which case using Reckless Attack would likely put it slightly ahead of PAM.Now the new system. The playtest barbarian picks up the level 1 feat of Savage Attacker just to see how impactful it will be, then picks up Polearm Master, Great Weapon Master, and Charger at levels 4, 8, and 12 in order to raise Strength to 20 (starting from 17).Charger is used 100% of the time, with the assumption that you can always move away, then run back in for the attack. He'll eat the opportunity attack for another chance to use Retaliation, though I didn't include Retaliation damage in the totals. If you don't want to do that, you can drop the DPR totals appropriately. It's only about 7% of damage if removed entirely, or less if you use it sporadically.For the halberd, I will get numbers both for when Cleave can't be used (eg: a solo boss), and with an assumption of about a 40% chance of triggering it.[spoiler="Playtest Barbarian, halberd"][code]Halberd +1 (new)  Acc: 65% acc, 5% crit  Reckless: 87.75% acc, 9.75% crit  Frenzy: 3d6 (10.5)  Crit: +13  PAM, GWM, Charger, Savage Attacker  Att: 5.5 (base) + 1 (weapon) + 5 (str) + 3 (rage) = 14.5 * 65% = 9.425 + 5% * (5.5 + 13) = 10.35  Reckless: 14.5 * 87.75% = 12.72375 + 9.75% * (5.5 + 13) = 14.5275  PAM Att: 2.5 (base) + 1 (weapon) + 5 (str) + 3 (rage) = 11.5 * 65% = 7.475 + 5% * (2.5 + 13) = 8.25  Reckless PAM: 11.5 * 87.75% = 10.09125 + 9.75% * (2.5 + 13) = 11.60  Cleave Att: 5.5 (base) + 1 (weapon) + 3 (rage) = 9.5 * 65% = 6.175 + 5% * (5.5 + 13) = 7.1  Reckless Cleave: 9.5 * 87.75% = 8.33625 + 9.75% * (5.5 + 13) = 10.14  GWM: 5 * 99.8% = 4.99  Frenzy: 10.5 * 99.8% = 10.479  Savage: (7.15 - 5.5) * 87.75% + (3.13 - 2.5) * 7.96% = 1.498  Reckless Savage: (7.15 - 5.5) * 98.5% + (3.13 - 2.5) * 1.32% = 1.634  Charge: 4.5 * 65% = 2.925  Reckless Charge: 4.5 * 87.75% = 3.95  Plain, no Cleave: Att + Att + PAM Att + GWM + Savage + Charge = 10.35 + 10.35 + 8.25 + 4.99 + 1.498 + 2.925 = 38.363  Reckless, no Cleave: Reckless + Reckless + Reckless PAM Att + Frenzy + GWM + Reckless Savage + Reckless Charge = 14.5275 + 14.5275 + 11.60 + 10.479 + 4.99 + 1.634 + 3.95 = 61.708  Plain, 40% Cleave: Att + Att + PAM Att + (95.7% * 40%) (trigger) * Cleave + GWM + Savage + Charge = 10.35 + 10.35 + 8.25 + 38.28% * 7.1 + 4.99 + 1.498 + 2.925 = 41.081  Reckless, 40% Cleave: Reckless + Reckless + Reckless PAM Att + (99.8% * 40%) (trigger) * Cleave + Frenzy + GWM + Reckless Savage + Reckless Charge = 14.5275 + 14.5275 + 11.60 + 39.92% * 10.14 + 10.479 + 4.99 + 1.634 + 3.95 = 65.756[/code][/spoiler]Also trying with a glaive to see the effects of Graze.[spoiler="Playtest Barbarian, glaive"][code]Glaive +1 (new)  Acc: 65% acc, 5% crit  Reckless: 87.75% acc, 9.75% crit  Frenzy: 3d6 (10.5)  Crit: +13  PAM, GWM, Charger, Savage Attacker  Att: 5.5 (base) + 1 (weapon) + 5 (str) + 3 (rage) = 14.5 * 65% = 9.425 + 5% * (5.5 + 13) = 10.35 + 5 (graze) * 35% = 12.1  Reckless: 14.5 * 87.75% = 12.72375 + 9.75% * (5.5 + 13) = 14.5275 + 5 (graze) * 12.25% = 15.14  PAM Att: 2.5 (base) + 1 (weapon) + 5 (str) + 3 (rage) = 11.5 * 65% = 7.475 + 5% * (2.5 + 13) = 8.25 + 5 (graze) * 35% = 10  Reckless PAM: 11.5 * 87.75% = 10.09125 + 9.75% * (2.5 + 13) = 11.60 + 5 (graze) * 12.25% = 12.21  GWM: 5 * 99.6% = 4.98  Frenzy: 10.5 * 99.6% = 10.458  Savage: (7.15 - 5.5) * 87.75% + (3.13 - 2.5) * 7.96% = 1.498  Reckless Savage: (7.15 - 5.5) * 98.5% + (3.13 - 2.5) * 1.32% = 1.634  Charge: 4.5 * 65% = 2.925  Reckless Charge: 4.5 * 87.75% = 3.95  Plain: Att + Att + PAM Att + GWM + Savage + Charge = 12.1 + 12.1 + 10 + 4.98 + 1.498 + 2.925 = 43.603  Reckless: Reckless + Reckless + Reckless PAM Att + Frenzy + GWM + Reckless Savage + Reckless Charge = 15.14 + 15.14 + 12.21 + 10.458 + 4.98 + 1.634 + 3.95 = 63.512[/code][/spoiler]So the glaive (Graze) is slightly better without Reckless Attack, while the halberd is slightly better with it, assuming there's a decent chance to make use of it. If there's no chance of triggering Cleave, the glaive will always be better (obviously).Savage Attacker is a very minor contributor to damage, so I'd probably drop it for a more utilitarian 1st level feat (eg: Skillful, Tough, Lucky, Alert, maybe Tavern Brawler).One might also consider using a pike, for Push. (I'd also wish for a maul with Push, as I like that image better.) You'd get the same damage numbers as the halberd without Cleave, but wouldn't need to run away before running back in for Charger. Just hit the enemy once to knock it back, and then charge after it for some bonus damage.   Plus you can leave the enemy at a range to trigger a PAM opportunity attack at the end.Summary:[code]PHB:    PAM, plain:     27.68    PAM, reckless:  38.18    GWM, plain:     21.67    GWM, reckless:  36.61    GWM, frenzy:    50.25Playtest:    Halberd, no Cleave:             38.363    Halberd, Reckless, no Cleave:   61.708    Halberd, 40% Cleave:            41.081    Halberd, Reckless, 40% Cleave:  65.756    Glaive:                         43.603    Glaive, Reckless:               63.512[/code]The playtest version not using Reckless Attack is on par with the PHB version using Reckless Attack. The playtest using Reckless Attack handily beats the PHB using Frenzy.The difference between Cleave and Graze is relatively minor here, though Cleave should always edge out Graze if you have decent opportunities to use it. May not be so useful if you're blinded, though, and can't find the targets.</blockquote>

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