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<blockquote data-quote="ferratus" data-source="post: 5999573" data-attributes="member: 55966">A few people have said that chisels and files are amongst the thieves tools.&nbsp;&nbsp; I think if they are, they do the rules differently.&nbsp; If you have chisels, a hacksaw and a crowbar among your thieves tools, then that locked door should always open (unless you are trying to open a safe or vault).&nbsp;&nbsp; Open locks should instead apply to whether you can do it quietly, not whether you can get the door open with your thieves' tools.Also, perhaps we should divide thieves tools back up into lockpicks and other assorted items.&nbsp; When I was playing 4e, they brought in the &quot;adventurer's kit&quot; which had the common items that every adventurerer took (rope, bedrolls, sunrods, etc.).&nbsp; The thing was, since it was just called &quot;adventuerer's kit&quot; on their sheets, my characters forgot what they contained (except rope, nobody ever forgot rope).&nbsp;&nbsp; They also stopped searching through the equipment list for the interesting items 4e did release through DDI.&nbsp; &nbsp; So I banned adventurer's kits and the electronic tool's automatic assigning of equipment, and the mundane dungeon troubleshooting items returned to the game.So if all the tools (listening cones, hacksaws, wax pads for taking key impressions, files, vials of acid etc. etc.) are all bundled under thieves' tools, perhaps they shouldn't be.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ferratus, post: 5999573, member: 55966"] A few people have said that chisels and files are amongst the thieves tools. I think if they are, they do the rules differently. If you have chisels, a hacksaw and a crowbar among your thieves tools, then that locked door should always open (unless you are trying to open a safe or vault). Open locks should instead apply to whether you can do it quietly, not whether you can get the door open with your thieves' tools. Also, perhaps we should divide thieves tools back up into lockpicks and other assorted items. When I was playing 4e, they brought in the "adventurer's kit" which had the common items that every adventurerer took (rope, bedrolls, sunrods, etc.). The thing was, since it was just called "adventuerer's kit" on their sheets, my characters forgot what they contained (except rope, nobody ever forgot rope). They also stopped searching through the equipment list for the interesting items 4e did release through DDI. So I banned adventurer's kits and the electronic tool's automatic assigning of equipment, and the mundane dungeon troubleshooting items returned to the game. So if all the tools (listening cones, hacksaws, wax pads for taking key impressions, files, vials of acid etc. etc.) are all bundled under thieves' tools, perhaps they shouldn't be. [/QUOTE]

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