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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 7308515" data-attributes="member: 16814">Vader was Luke's father.  This bit is the crux of their relationship and what actually turns Vader, not Luke's daring heroism.  That's just a catalyst, but the functional relationship is father/son.  That's what was so powerful and resonated.And, yes, Luke felt he was past all such things, but suddenly, in the moment of crisis when he faced the darkness inside Ben Solo, he still reached out to pain and anger and fear -- he wasn't the person he though he was, hoped he was, he was a person still capable of error.  And the result of that error was catastrophic -- his nephew murdering the other students, destroying Luke's temple, and setting out to join the powerful Darkside Force user among the 1st Order.  All because Luke had a moment of weakness and failed to keep Ben Solo from the Dark side.  That utterly shook his faith, both in himself, because he failed himself there in addition to Ben, and in the Force, because he faith in it didn't save him this time.  So he quits, totally in character as established in the OT.But, eventually, he learns a harsh lesson -- that failure isn't the end or the beginning, but a step along the way, and so faces his failure and it's costs, accepts them, and moves forward.  It's a moment that sums up Luke's entire journey - he moves from faith in the Force to faith in himself, something he's always lacked - and culminates in his greatest success.Again with this wasted effort.  Luke turned Vader.  Still happened?  Instead, you seem to be upset because you were told as part of the new backstory that he started a Jedi Temple (where did he strive for this in the OT?) and that failed.  Which part of the OT does this invalidate?Leia wanted to beat the Empire.  Done, and still done.  Now, we're upset that a completely new threat, which superficially resembles the old Empire but is something different, has arisen to threaten the 30 year span of the New Republic?Han wanted to be a hero.  He was.  Not invalidated.  And he got to finish his story going out a hero again.  In the meantime, we're told as part of the new backstory that he married Leia and had a kid and lived happily until the kid went nuts and killed a bunch of people.  But this doesn't invalidate anything in the OT for Han, and he gets to close out his story by returning, making up with Leia and being a father to Ben.  Ben, of course, is a bad guy, so it goes badly.Nothing in the new films invalidates anything in the OT that you didn't invent yourself and bring into the movie.</blockquote>

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