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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Argyle King" data-source="post: 5376612" data-attributes="member: 58416">I am fully aware that it happens in all games.  However, I do feel that more recent games (which includes D&D 4E) cater to a mentality that is somewhat softer.  I'm not saying that's right or wrong; just my opinion that it seems to be the contemporary trend to favor flawless heroes in many games. I totally understand the reason for getting away from 'weak deaths' and one shot PC deaths.  I really do.  It often does suck very much to spend more time making a character than playing a character.  However, for me, I feel that the hobby's mentality(and, really, to some extent, our society's mentality) as a whole as overcompensated and taken things too far in the other direction.  I prefer a more moderate approach.  Death really isn't even what I'm trying to touch upon with my statement either.  In general, I feel as though -as some others have said- failure should matter.  Secondly, I feel failure should matter without needing to whip out the Superman solution all of the time...  "Well, we can't beat Superman, so we'll attack Lois or we'll threaten the city."    Maybe this makes me sound coldhearted, but -eventually- I'm going to get fed up with trying to help the citizens of the local village if every session revolves around me being their only hope.  There are several reasons for this, but the two easiest to express are: a) if it's really that dangerous to live there, why do they not move; b) the people of said village seem to be using me as a crutch and not making any effort at all to defend themselves.  By the same token, if I know that (from my point of view) the evil overlord's minions (nor the overlord himself) have any realistic hope of harming me, why should I care if he spreads his influence to the next hamlet in the middle of nowhere?  This is thinking from the character's point of view; through the eyes of someone living in the game world.  On the other hand, if I'm in a world where being a PC doesn't automatically mean I'm godlike compared to everyone else in the world; in a world where failure can impact my quality of life, things change.  I don't want the evil overlord to take control of the hamlet because then he increases his power base and eventually I'll have to contend with his forces.  Likewise, I start to have more of a reason to care about the people in the village*. ...I'm starting to go off on a different topic, so I'll just stop there.  For me, I think the issue goes beyond the definition of 'weak death.'  I think the meaning of death (and failure) are part of a greater discussion concerning the reasons why I choose to play rpgs and how much importance I place upon how the world feels when I look at it through the eyes of my character as well as a discussion concerning whether or not non-combat actions should be placed on the same stage as combat.  *I'm assuming a character who did not already have some sort of family or other such interest attached to the town.</blockquote>

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