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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5376743" data-attributes="member: 18280">But that is a straw man.&nbsp; No one here advocates Failure=Death.What is at question is only whether or not death is an acceptable form of failure.IOW, if you allow character death, Failure is a set of values, and Death is a member of that set.&nbsp; Thus, if the set contains even only Equipment Loss Due to Rust Monster and Death, then living characters who have experienced equipment loss due to rust monsters have also experienced failure, even if they are still living.Yet, no one here advocates such a narrow set of Failure which also includes Death, either.&nbsp; A set becomes narrow by removing options, not by adding to them.&nbsp; For example, I know an EN Worlder who, over the course of several previous threads, has decried character death (in most, but not all, circumstances), so-called &quot;gotcha monsters&quot; (such as rust monsters), equipment loss, petrification, and indeed anything that takes a character out of the action for more than a round or two, and possibly even that.&nbsp; Now that fellow has a very narrow set of acceptable &quot;failure&quot; conditions!&nbsp; Perhaps you know him?RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 5376743, member: 18280"] But that is a straw man. No one here advocates Failure=Death. What is at question is only whether or not death is an acceptable form of failure. IOW, if you allow character death, Failure is a set of values, and Death is a member of that set. Thus, if the set contains even only Equipment Loss Due to Rust Monster and Death, then living characters who have experienced equipment loss due to rust monsters have also experienced failure, even if they are still living. Yet, no one here advocates such a narrow set of Failure which also includes Death, either. A set becomes narrow by [I][B]removing[/B][/I] options, not by [I][B]adding[/B][/I] to them. For example, I know an EN Worlder who, over the course of several previous threads, has decried character death (in most, but not all, circumstances), so-called "gotcha monsters" (such as rust monsters), equipment loss, petrification, and indeed anything that takes a character out of the action for more than a round or two, and possibly even that. Now [B][I]that fellow[/I][/B] has a very narrow set of acceptable "failure" conditions! Perhaps you know him? RC [/QUOTE]

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