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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5376774" data-attributes="member: 18280">Actually, this is where the modern comics angst of &quot;The villians are only here because of you!&quot; comes from.Because we know that actual death is taken off the table for Hero X, we threaten everything around Hero X to create stories.&nbsp; You can break Batman's back, but he'll get better.&nbsp; You can kill him with the most potent anti-life equation, but he'll get better.&nbsp; Superman will rise from the grave.&nbsp; Hawkeye will come back again and again.&nbsp; Captain America?&nbsp; We all knew that his death was temporary.&nbsp; Heck, even his sidekick came back from the grave!The whole thing becomes a farce.Then, sooner or later, we notice that Braniac never attacks Chicago; clearly he is drawn to Metropolis by Superman's mere presence.&nbsp; We get the angsty-&quot;Why do I have to have so many powers?&quot; stories.&nbsp; We have stories that claim that Joker would stop killing folks if only Batman went away.&nbsp; And that works for a while, but it becomes a kind of a farce too.Comics sales decline, and the writers go for &quot;edgier, darker, more graphic&quot;, and that is working for a while.But what we'd really like to see, deep in our comic-reader hearts, is a story that actually means something.&nbsp; That changes the world of the heroes in a fundamental way.&nbsp; That isn't simply written away a year later.The Killing Joke isn't a classic just because Alan Moore wrote it.&nbsp; It is a classic because, in part, Barbara Gordon is still in that chair!&nbsp; Captain Marvel's death wasn't a landmark just because he died of cancer, but because he stayed dead for so long (although, Marvel has screwed that up recently).Bruce Wayne's &quot;death&quot; was fairly meaningless, OTOH, because we all knew he would be back.Meaning comes from both context and consequence.&nbsp; It is not enough to have only context; it is not enough to have only consequence.&nbsp; Without a healthy dose of both, no comic, no book, no movie, and no rpg has meaning.&nbsp; The more you pare away context, and the more you pare away consequence, the more you pare away meaning.It really is that simple.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 5376774, member: 18280"] Actually, this is where the modern comics angst of "The villians are only here because of [B][I]you[/I][/B]!" comes from. Because we know that actual death is taken off the table for Hero X, we threaten everything around Hero X to create stories. You can break Batman's back, but he'll get better. You can kill him with the most potent anti-life equation, but he'll get better. Superman will rise from the grave. Hawkeye will come back again and again. Captain America? We all knew that his death was temporary. Heck, even his sidekick came back from the grave! The whole thing becomes a farce. Then, sooner or later, we notice that Braniac never attacks Chicago; clearly he is [B][I]drawn[/I][/B] to Metropolis by Superman's mere presence. We get the angsty-"Why do I have to have so many powers?" stories. We have stories that claim that Joker would stop killing folks if only Batman went away. And that works for a while, but it becomes a kind of a farce too. Comics sales decline, and the writers go for "edgier, darker, more graphic", and that is working for a while. But what we'd really like to see, deep in our comic-reader hearts, is a story that actually means something. That changes the world of the heroes in a fundamental way. That isn't simply written away a year later. The Killing Joke isn't a classic just because Alan Moore wrote it. It is a classic because, in part, [B][I]Barbara Gordon is still in that chair[/I][/B]! Captain Marvel's death wasn't a landmark just because he died of cancer, but because [I][B]he stayed dead for so long[/B][/I] (although, Marvel has screwed that up recently). Bruce Wayne's "death" was fairly meaningless, OTOH, because we all knew he would be back. Meaning comes from both context and consequence. It is not enough to have only context; it is not enough to have only consequence. Without a healthy dose of both, no comic, no book, no movie, and no rpg has meaning. The more you pare away context, and the more you pare away consequence, the more you pare away meaning. It really is that simple. RC [/QUOTE]

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