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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5377628" data-attributes="member: 22779">Missed this the first time around.ROTF.&nbsp; RC, you know this story, so, pretending that you don't is pretty disengenious.&nbsp; The game wasn't started in the middle of a fight, again, as you well know.&nbsp; It's just that the first fight the PC's ran into, the bad guys killed the newbie in the first round before he even got a chance to act.Funny how the finger pointing starts though.&nbsp; &quot;Hrm, my system couldn't possibly give bad results, any failure must be on YOU!&quot;&nbsp; <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/worried.png"&nbsp; class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":-S" title="Uhm&nbsp; &nbsp; :-S" data-shortname=":-S" />It couldn't possibly be that because, in the 3e system, any creature of an equivalent CR can kill a PC in a single round.&nbsp; It's not likely, true, but, it's entirely possible.Starting an entirely new campaign for this guy wasn't an option, he was joining half way through.&nbsp; Could I have done different things?&nbsp; Probably.&nbsp; But, then again, it would have taken NOTHING away from the game to simply not kill his character at this point in time.Then again, I don't play in games where chargen is 15 minutes of creating meaningless ciphers with no background, no personality and no story.&nbsp; That might work for some DM's, but, I like a little more depth in my game.&nbsp; ------------------Sigh.&nbsp; Why I get dragged into this morass of Raven Crowking yet again trying to prove the superiority of his one true way is beyond me.------------------Look, in case this wasn't clear, I am NOT saying that you should never have death in the game.&nbsp; I never said that at all.&nbsp; You can and should have death in any number of games.&nbsp; I almost always do play where death is on the table (sometimes right up front and sometimes a bit mitigated by things like Fate points or whatnot).But, what I was originally responding to was claims that if you take death off the table, an RPG becomes a pointless, meaningless exercise.&nbsp; Celebrim claims we shouldn't bother to roll for anything if we take death off the table.&nbsp; Others have claimed that it's boring and pointless.My point is, you don't have to play RPG's this way.&nbsp; This is not the only way to play. You can play in games where death is not a consequence and still have a very enjoyable, meaningful game.&nbsp; It will be different than a more traditional game, but still loads of fun.&nbsp; There are a number of systems that work this way - 3:16, Sufficiently Advanced, Seven Leagues (a system I really, really want to try) just to name three.&nbsp; So, yes, death as a consequence is certainly fun.&nbsp; Most definitely.&nbsp; But, it's not the only way to play.&nbsp; I urge anyone to expand upon their gaming experience and try new things.&nbsp; It is always good to broaden your horizons.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5377628, member: 22779"] Missed this the first time around. ROTF. RC, you know this story, so, pretending that you don't is pretty disengenious. The game wasn't started in the middle of a fight, again, as you well know. It's just that the first fight the PC's ran into, the bad guys killed the newbie in the first round before he even got a chance to act. Funny how the finger pointing starts though. "Hrm, my system couldn't possibly give bad results, any failure must be on YOU!" :-S It couldn't possibly be that because, in the 3e system, any creature of an equivalent CR can kill a PC in a single round. It's not likely, true, but, it's entirely possible. Starting an entirely new campaign for this guy wasn't an option, he was joining half way through. Could I have done different things? Probably. But, then again, it would have taken NOTHING away from the game to simply not kill his character at this point in time. Then again, I don't play in games where chargen is 15 minutes of creating meaningless ciphers with no background, no personality and no story. That might work for some DM's, but, I like a little more depth in my game. ------------------ Sigh. Why I get dragged into this morass of Raven Crowking yet again trying to prove the superiority of his one true way is beyond me. ------------------ Look, in case this wasn't clear, I am NOT saying that you should never have death in the game. I never said that at all. You can and should have death in any number of games. I almost always do play where death is on the table (sometimes right up front and sometimes a bit mitigated by things like Fate points or whatnot). But, what I was originally responding to was claims that if you take death off the table, an RPG becomes a pointless, meaningless exercise. Celebrim claims we shouldn't bother to roll for anything if we take death off the table. Others have claimed that it's boring and pointless. My point is, you don't have to play RPG's this way. This is not the only way to play. You can play in games where death is not a consequence and still have a very enjoyable, meaningful game. It will be different than a more traditional game, but still loads of fun. There are a number of systems that work this way - 3:16, Sufficiently Advanced, Seven Leagues (a system I really, really want to try) just to name three. So, yes, death as a consequence is certainly fun. Most definitely. But, it's not the only way to play. I urge anyone to expand upon their gaming experience and try new things. It is always good to broaden your horizons. [/QUOTE]

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